The Only other records that will play on a Diamond disc are 150 tpi Vertical cut Gennett records. I think though that these were designed for machines that use steel needles in the vertical position, these are thick blue label, and you can see that they have the same groove as a DD. I notice on these that the highs are clear just like Diamond Discs, so their is for certain a clarity issue in vertical over lateral. The Vertical recording also has superiority on a quantum level. Ever notice if you sit in front of your Damond Disc, or a cylinder recording with the machine well adjusted, that if you can close your eyes You can place the instruments in the studio, in a 3 dimensional plane, even though it is supposedly a MONO system. This will, however NOT be present if you play these records back electrially. When we trasferred the cylinder records to the sound track for the Bolden movie, We used the Edison C reproducer, 56" horn and 3 microphones, as opposed to an electrical pickup, 2 Schoeps and 1 Neumann U-87 were used. We did about 3 or 4 takes with different microphone positions, and the result was a surprising surround sound spread, _________________________________________________________________ More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008 From lhera...@bu.edu Fri Apr 11 14:37:57 2008 From: lhera...@bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Fri Apr 11 14:38:48 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? In-Reply-To: <00a401c89b4e$d8d4fad0$6500a...@your4dacd0ea75> References: <410-22008441020059...@earthlink.net><007401c89b46$78949ac0$90d42...@ad.bu.edu> <00a401c89b4e$d8d4fad0$6500a...@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <007e01c89c1c$4f72cc80$2f01a...@ronlherault>
Right, Bob. I would not really advocate playing a Diamond Disc regularly on anything but a DD machine. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 5:07 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? Ron, What you said is correct; however, the head still had to be driven by the record groove. This would create an uneven lateral pressure on the record groove and probably affected sound quality as well as record wear. The ultona arm also had a weight mounted parallel to the arm that could be moved back and forth to adjust the weight of the reproducer. I'm assuming it was designed to approximate the weight of a diamond disc reproducer as the majority of vertical records that were played on it were probably Edison diamond disks. RMV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron L" <lhera...@bu.edu> To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" <phono-l@oldcrank.org> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:07 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? >I don't have an Ultona head, I only have the simpler one sided one. The > actual Ultona, as I remember it has a needle bar that looks just like a DD > arrangement. I believe the head can swivel as well to mimic DD geometry. > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Douglas Houston > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:01 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? > > Ron: Of all people on this planet, I'm probably the least to comment > intelligently about playing DD's on anything but an Edison phonograph. > But, > since, for instance, the Brunswick Ultona head plays a DD, and the disc > carries the stylus across the record, it does so on an angle not done on > an Edison player. The modulaion of the groove is then read at an angle. > Since Edison's stylus reads the modulation on a 90 degree angle to the > disc, > does this degrade the quality (fidelity) of the recording, and would the > playing angle have a detrimental effect to the disc, for the same number > of > plays? I'm drawing from memory, because I haven't owned a Brunswick > phonograph for some years, but I seem to remember that the B'wick head > plays the DD at an angle, as any oher of the "twist around" boxes did. > And, > by the way, while the Brunswick phono I had was in very good shape, the DD > I > played on it sounded far poorer than it had sounded on a DD player I once > had. > > I'm assuming of course, that the stylus pressure of the Ultona (or any > other > head) would be similar to that of a DD player. We all know that Edison > frowned upon anything but his players to play his records, but was there > any > technical substance to this, or was it simply Madison Avenue hype? > >> [Original Message] >> From: Ron L <lhera...@bu.edu> >> To: Antique Phonograph List <phono-l@oldcrank.org> >> Date: 4/10/2008 12:07:50 PM >> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? >> >> Well, you can't use a DD reproducer on anything but a DD. You could use >> a >> suitable adaptor in place of the DD reproducer, however to play another >> brand vertical record on the DD machine. >> >> Diamond discs are not designed to propel the arm across the record. > However >> if the machine is nice and level and the arm is very free swinging, it > will >> work. I don't know if there is anything to be gained or lost sonically. >> >> Ron L >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] > On >> Behalf Of james n. vandrisse >> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:50 AM >> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org >> Subject: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? >> >> (J.M.J.) >> >> What would the pro and cons be regarding the playing of other company >> vertical records on a C-19 or C-250 machine? And what about playing DDs >> on >> any other machines that the sound box can be turned to play vertical > records >> with a saphire stylus? Are there any possible damages to records to be > done, >> or any real fidelty or presences increased especially if playing Pathe, >> Lyric, Okeh, or other verticals through the 250 horn? I would like to try >> this on my machines but am waiting for any advise. Maybe I am best to >> just >> continue to play records, as I have been, on the proper machines? >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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