I actually did tear the motor apart a second time, including removing the springs to insure that I didn't inadvertently capture a cat or some other foreign material in the springs. This credenza motor is the first one I've seen this way. It is impossible to reassemble the springs into the cans in correctly.
You are probably familiar with springs that catch onto a rivet. Some have a rivet hole on the outer end and inner end. They can be assembled either clockwise or counter clockwise and look correct but when you wind it, the rivet will unhook from the spring, most likely catch the back of the hole or maybe the very end of the spring and try to push the spring the other way, resulting in very obvious damage. Some springs have a crimped inner end instead of the rivet there but still have a rivet on the outside. If this type is assembled incorrectly, I believe the crimp will just push out and the center arbor will spin around without much damage. The system on the motor I have in front of me has the crimped inner part. However, the outer part is just the very end of the spring bent over in a U shape. Touch the palm of your hand with your fingertips. Now relax them a bit. This U catches a long flat plate, which is attached to the spring barrel and with one side slightly bend up. It does not move and the U will only catch on it one way. It cannot be hooked on backwards. Neat, huh? And it is probably cheaper to assemble, if not manufacture. The outer parts of the can were marked so that they could not be transposed. Ron -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Douglas Houston Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 12:49 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem I've been watching this thread, and dagnab it, I still have my aged mind mde up that sumpin' is together bass-ackwards. The only way to ever find out is to take the thing apart again and re-construct the assembly. I haven't studied the effects of having a spring in backwards, so my theories may not mean anything. You realize that this thing is going to have me losing sleep. I'll need to swallow a Melatonin tonight just to have peace! You can bet your sweet bippy that, when I reassemble the 4 spring motor for a VV-XIV I have, that I'll ponder over every part of that thing. BTW, I have heard that white lithium grease is good stuff for these motors. Have you ever heard otherwise? There's a spare 4 spring motor laying around here someplace, and I'd even use it to check on myself when I put the other one together. Seriously, Ron, you wouldn't have to remove any springs from the barrels if you want to check on yourself. If you just remove the barrels from the shafts and the hubs, you can see readily, which way the spring winds up in each end of the barrel. That way, you'll prove conclusively, that I'm wrong. > [Original Message] > From: Ron L'Herault <[email protected]> > To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]> > Date: 4/30/2009 11:46:43 PM > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem > > They did, indeed feel stiff and winding seems normal. It is gear reduction > winding on this type motor, not direct so winding is easy. > > Ron > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:05 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem > > When you put the springs back did they feal realy stiff? Does it seem to > have good tension when you wind it? I don't know if this will help, but I > would let it run down completely and then count the number of turns to get > it fully wound. Then ask someone with a Credenza with a good 4 spring motor > > to do the same and compare the results I didn't see Georges sugestion. > What was it? > Bob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron L" <[email protected]> > To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:28 PM > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem > > > > The owner of the machine said that even with the thump, it played more > > than > > three sides. However, the thump was so bad at one point that the needle > > jumped. I winder if it was so bound up that one or more of the springs > > acted as if they were smaller/under more tension and so powered the motor > > longer but not the full 20 min. I also suspected that the springs may > > have > > 'softened' over time but I will try George Vollema's gear suggestion > > before > > I do anything else. > > > > Ron L > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > > On > > Behalf Of Bob > > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:56 AM > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem > > > > Ron, > > Did you wind it fully and play it before you changed the grease to > > eliminate the thumping? If so how long did it play? A good four spring > > motor should run about 20 minutes. If it didn't, it's possible that the > > springs have lost some temper and are weak. The only other possibility > > is > > > > a bad record or needle but I'm sure you thought of that. > > Bob > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ron L" <[email protected]> > > To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:47 AM > > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem > > > > > >>I do have an electric C. This is a repair for someone else. The neat > >> thing about the clip end/bent end springs is that it is impossible to > >> assemble them into the cans in the wrong direction. It is easy to mess > >> them up when you have rivets in the cans and holes on the springs. They > >> do > >> not wind up, and in fact will distort the spring centers, with the real > >> potential for breaking them. > >> > >> Ron L > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > >> On > >> Behalf Of Douglas Houston > >> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:05 AM > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > >> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem > >> > >> This is a sticky one. I have a long shot thought. Victor has a procedure > >> in > >> the service notes, that tells you whichn spring to load in the barrel, > >> and > >> its direction of winding.Is it possible that one of the springs could > >> have > >> nbeen installed in reverse? I'm not even sure if the motor could be > >> nwound > >> if that were done, but as I've said, it's a long shot. > >> > >> I have one of those 4 spring jobs apart now, and I've got to study the > >> thing a lot before I re-pack the springs. > >> > >> (Maybe if you got one of those electric Credenzas like I have, you > >> wouldn't > >> have this mess!!!!) > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> Doug. Houston > >> > >> > >>> [Original Message] > >>> From: Ron L'Herault <[email protected]> > >>> To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]>; > >> <[email protected]> > >>> Date: 4/29/2009 10:55:02 PM > >>> Subject: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem > >>> > >>> Hokay, list experts. I need help. The original problem was thumping > >>> springs. So, you take them out (done that many times) clean them, and > >>> reinstall/relube. This should be pretty straight forward. And these are > >> the > >>> ones with the clip outer ends and bent over inner ends. They only go > >>> together one way. It winds up fine but only plays 4 sides before it > >> starts > >>> to loose power and slow down when you try to play the 5th side. > >>> Sometimes > >>> it makes a bit of a scraping sound but nothing is hitting the turntable. > >>> What have I missed? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Ron L > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Phono-L mailing list > >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.10/2088 - Release Date: 04/30/09 > > 06:01:00 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.10/2088 - Release Date: 04/30/09 > 06:01:00 > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
