I could not be more opposed to using the "Disc Doctor" solution containing
water! In cleaning DD I use brushes as used in the Disc Doctor and I assure
you the alcohol does a far better and safer job than distilled water and
their magic ingredient. It dissolves all manner of dirt, nicotine, dust that
has "sat up" for eighty years and anything else I could imagine. Try a white
tee shirt before and after...see what does and doesn't come off. Do the same
with water and the magic ingredient and see what you get. I find it very
hard not to get the edges wet using alcohol. I can't understand why anybody
would use water knowing what it does to the core. If you don't believe the
bottom of the grooves are really clean using alcohol and the right brush,
look at them with a good microscope. If you want to experiment with water
and tanna leaves, do so on a junk record, even one that "looks" clean
already.
Yes, the edges were coated with wax for protection and the surface was
waxed with stearate. We've had this discussion a while back.
Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Medved" <[email protected]>
To: "Phono-l" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15
Hello John,
I believe you are totally correct, originally the sides of the record were
coated to protect them from moisture absorption. Even the Blue Amberol
must be shown the same consideration with regards to protecting it core.
Those BA records that were properly stored in a dry environment slip all
the way on the mandrel and some I have go so far there is 1/4 inch of
mandrel showing.
Denatured alcohol would ruin other records, yet it was a cleaner for the
'superior' Edison records. The steel needle vs the diamond, lateral vs
vertical, all these things served to underscore the 'Edison superiority'.
According to EDAR until in early 1921 the core was changed to China clay
from wood flour. Long term or uncontrolled exposure of the core to
moisture is what produces the damage. 5 minutes of surface cleaning
especially when using the Disc doctors applicator and avoiding getting
moisture to the core does much more good than harm.
Under the M6B record label type EDAR states that the above. Too bad this
book is out of print.
Edison records get the sound from the bottom and are best graded in
sunlight or a bright light. In bright light the record that appears shiny
in normal light will show the dirt, grime and mold of the last 80 years.
A proper cleaning removes damaging grit.
The only concern I have with using alcohol to clean the records is removal
of the crud. When the records were new the alcohol was an effective way
of cleaning, now after 80 years of accumulation I wonder if and how the
alcohol removes the crud and what procedure should be used.
With the Disc Doctor's method his cleaner loosens the crud and distilled
water is used to remove it. Please note aside from the facts above that
came from EDAR all is my opinion and was stated for the purpose of my
learning.
Best regards,
Steve
Ger,
I mentioned in my previous post that The surface of the records is a
phenolic resin derived from coal tar similar to Bakelite that Edison
called Condensite. Phenolic resin is some of the toughest and most
chemically-neutral stuff on the planet. I don't think Edison's concern
was that a drop of water should ever touch the surface of a record
because water is simply not going to react with a phenolic
resin in any way. I think the concern really was that water would come in
contact with the edges of the record since the core is highly absorbtive
wood flour and clay.. I'm not advocating the use of water, merely trying
to explain the reasoning for the use of alcohol and why alcohol won't
hurt the chemically tough surface of the records.
The 'bearing' you oiled on the reproducer is properly called a 'hinge
block'. Cylinder reproducers have them, too, in various forms.
Where do you live, Ger? Perhaps there is another collector nearby who
could come over and walk you througgh this a bit.
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 03:36:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15
>
> I have a can of denatured alcohol. It says that it can be used as
> shellac thinner. Won't that harm the top layer of the records??
>
> I put some light machine oil at the back of the reproducer...didn't
> realize that it had a bearing. Thanks.
>
> Ger
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruce Mercer
> To: Antique Phonograph List
> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15
>
>
> NEVER use water on DD. Use denatured alcohol. Even rubbing alcohol
> has water
> in it.Also, make sure the reproducer is properly oiled at the rear
> bearing.
> Bruce
>
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