On Sun, Dec 16, 2001 at 05:35:25AM -0200, Manuel Lemos wrote :
> Gee, Markus, have you just arrived to php-dev? :-)
Hehe. No, was at a party ;-)
> PHP developers have a very long track record of neglecting my bug
> reports and quality improvement suggestions, some times making a very
> hard effort to deny that what I am reporting it is a bug!
I know what you mean. I don't have any time for such personal
things.
> My point is that many of those people will give up reporting after they
> realize than many of their reports are simply not being properly
> addressed!
Ah, well. If you search the database you will also find
reports saying they're happy the dev team did this and that.
It still falls in the "we can't please everyone" category.
Anyway, the bug database is big and you will find enough
reprots for a sample you give.
> > That the particular problem missbehaved in the past for so
> > long is a pitty. That it's not documented is a pitty.
> > Changing this behaviour BACK AGAIN is IMHO the worst thing
> > one can think of.
>
> What I suggested was not to change to the original behaviour, but rather
> have a switch in php.ini to enable the original behaviour.
As bad either. We, after some time, will end up with 1000 of
switches. Although I don't think there are too many BC
switchs right now there are too many after all.
> > IMHO the best thing we can and should do at the moment is to
> > proper document this change down and from that point of view
> > your report was very valueable.
>
> Never mind, functions like dirname and strtok are in my blacklist,
> meaning I will ban them from my PHP programs because I can't afford
> using or distribute code that does not provide reliable behaviour as I
> can't assure if my code will run with a PHP version that will provide a
> reliable behaviour.
>
> strtok for instance had a long track record of bugs. Not a very long
> time ago, I banned strtok from Metabase because a user complained that
> Metabase could not be used in PHP session handlers. It turned out that
> it was a bug in strtok. As you know many thousands of use Metabase, so I
> can't be responsible for strtok bugs that affect Metabase. I completely
> removed all calls to strtok in Metabase.
>
> The same story with dirname. I just realized that strtok has a new bug
> caused by somebody that tried to fix a previous report. Now it affects
> the whole PHP Classes site. So, now I will ban strtok from all my PHP
> software.
>
> I used to say as a joke that I don't use Microsoft software because it
> is already hard to keep my software bug free so it would be harder if it
> dependended on Microsoft software. Too bad that is not a joke with PHP.
> :-(
>
> This is just my view of what it means to be professional when you
> develop software that many others use. Too bad that not everybody
> agrees. :-(
You have a point and its your right to ban those. It seems
not too many people rely on that BC from PHP3 to current
version or just PHP 4.0.0 to current one. I can understand
its a pain in the ass what you go for. But it is also a
matter of carrying old relicts which are brain-damaged in a
language. I agree it will ban out those who go for most
compatibility. This is sadly were we rule out people needing
this like you. Or, that those already moved to another
language. There is nothing that can be done about it.
Professionalism forth and back: You can divide the group in
people wanting to have a language were functions act as they
should (even if it was broken in earlier releases, just
because it makes sense) and in those relying on BC from
version x to now. Given that set, it's obvious that at no
point in the software developing line you can please both
accurately.
Personally, there are also things in PHP were I myself
somethings thing "are they crazy?!" but then no one forces me
use PHP. If I would need that kind of BC I'm better of with
(note: bad comparison) C which hasn't changed the last 4
yours (not to my knowledge, I may be wrong). And if they
did, they may have choosen another language beside PHP.
Sad story for some people, I admit. And regarding your last
paragraph I even agree.
- Markus
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