Bob McConnell wrote:
From: Robert Cummings
Lester Caine wrote:
James McLean wrote:
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 2:26 PM,  <> wrote:
On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:39:03 +0100, (Jochem
Maas) wrote:
as for using IE6 ... WTF ... you do realise this is essentially a
developers mailing list right?
The interesting things in my websites go on behind-the-scenes, in
the PHP, and produce
relatively straightforward HTML. I have avoided the well-known bugs
in IE6, and think my
webpages display correctly on any of the modern browsers, but as
Microsoft delights in
rearranging everything in every update, and making the features you
need ever harder to
find, I stick to IE6 for my everyday work.
Wow. Ignoring the issue that IE6 will soon be EOL (finally), and
ignoring how bad it is at handling anything even remotely modern,
workstation must be a haven for virii, spyware and malware... IE6
just about the worst security track record out there, at least on
desktop anyway.

If you must have IE6 for whatever reason, stick it on Windows
installed on a VM and upgrade your main workstation browser to
something more recent. At least a VM can be backed up at a
point and if^H^Hwhen it gets compromised it can be deleted easily
replaced with your backup.

I'll make it easy for you: :)
Since a large section of our USER base is still tied to W2k and does
not have
access to install other software, the call for IE6 to die is STILL
What is needed is someone to kick M$ to sort the mess out by at least
IE8 to install on W2k machines, rather than telling hundreds of
councils they
have to replace ALL their computers :(

The alternative is to convince M$ controlled councils that Firefox is
OK and
that using it will not invalidate their contracts - but then all the
currently being done to convert legacy setups to work with *IE7*
would have to
be scrapped and reworked on Firefox. Many of my customers have only
just got
funds to start an *IE7* roll out! Redoing all that work for IE8 is
yet another
problem for which money is not available.
Microsoft WANTS them to spend money upgrading... that's the point of questionable feature enhancement and the breaking of file formats so that older software can't read it properly. If the councils really
to save money they'd move to Linux. As for "all the work being done to

convert legacy setups to work with IE7"... this is the WRONG philosophy... it should be "all the work being done to convert legacy systems to work with Standards" with a little bit of "with IE7 compatibility layer on top". The target is standards, that way in the future they aren't locked in still.

Our SOP is to generate standards compliant pages, validate them with
Firefox and the HTML Validator add-on, then deal with the deviant
browsers. It's a lot less work than trying to do it the other way
around. There are a few minor issues, such as W3C still refusing to
allow the autocomplete attribute for forms, while PCI requires it. But
those are few and far between.

Bob McConnell

P.S. HTML Validator is available for Linux, but not from the Firefox
add-on site. You need to go to the validator home page to get it.

Yep, the validator is a great tool. I also simplify my task for browser rendering incompatibilities by adding the following around every page's content:

<!--[if IE 7]> <div id="ie7" class="ie7"> <![endif]--> <!--[if lte IE 7]> <div id="ie7_lte" class="ie7_lte"> <![endif]--> <!--[if lt IE 7]> <div id="ie7_lt" class="ie7_lt"> <![endif]--> <!--[if IE 6]> <div id="ie6" class="ie6"> <![endif]--> <!--[if lte IE 6]> <div id="ie6_lte" class="ie6_lte"> <![endif]--> <!--[if lt IE 6]> <div id="ie6_lt" class="ie6_lt"> <![endif]--> <!--[if lt IE 6]> <div id="ie5" class="ie5"> <![endif]--> <!--[if IE]> <div id="ieX" class="ieX"> <![endif]-->


<!--[if IE]> </div> <![endif]--> <!--[if lt IE 6]> </div> <![endif]--> <!--[if lt IE 6]> </div> <![endif]--> <!--[if lte IE 6]> </div> <![endif]--> <!--[if IE 6]> </div> <![endif]--> <!--[if lt IE 7]> </div> <![endif]--> <!--[if lte IE 7]> </div> <![endif]--> <!--[if IE 7]> </div> <![endif]-->

This allows easy addition of CSS rules right where the main rule is defined:

    width: 90%;

div.ie7_lte div.some-class
    width: 85%;

I've never understood the messy practice of having multiple stylesheets, one for each version of IE, where the rules are separated from the main rule. I also have a script, for the rare instances where I need to care about Safari, that uses JavaScript to insert similar tags as above but based on the browser actually being used.

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