On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 1:31 AM, David Hutto <smokefl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:10 AM, Tommy Pham <tommy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 12:06 AM, David Hutto <smokefl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 2:59 AM, Tommy Pham <tommy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 11:39 PM, David Hutto <smokefl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 2:34 AM, Tommy Pham <tommy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 11:26 PM, David Hutto <smokefl...@gmail.com> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 2:22 AM, Tommy Pham <tommy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:34 PM, David Hutto <smokefl...@gmail.com> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Although, right now, if I were going to be using all of those
>>>>>>>>> languages in unison(and I am), then I'd go with C, and spit them out
>>>>>>>>> to the browser for lower level control, as well as, to remain familiar
>>>>>>>>> with some of the main languages being used currently.
>>>>>>>> But then how portable is your app?
>>>>>>> I'd have to refer to your reply:
>>>>>>> "This would depend on the original application design & code."
>>>>>>> If the original app is meant for specific hardware, and a specific
>>>>>>> company, then portability is null point.
>>>>>> If that's the case why even bother with PHP?  Why not just do it in C
>>>>>> for pure speed?
>>>>> Speed wasn't the point- Multiple technology usage was the point. And
>>>>> if you're going to poise a browser for multiple intercepts(in terms of
>>>>> languages), then C *seems* to be the best was to move toward the
>>>>> displayment of it's descendants.
>>>>> If it's going to be a multi-language project, then it needs to be
>>>>> addressed with a multilanguage source to stem from, and C would seem
>>>>> like the optimum epicenter for propagation of this.
>>>>> I thought one of the major points of PHP is 'develop
>>>>>> anywhere and deploy anywhere'.
>>>> In the OP's case, where would C fit in when you have HTML, JS, and PHP
>>>> - PHP would produce the resultant text in addtion to JS & HTML.  What
>>>> would be the 'specific need' to do work in C where PHP, its many
>>>> extensions and library (PECL & PEAR), and lots of the other PHP code
>>>> based libraries/frameworks out there already to do the job?  The way I
>>>> look at it, if too many languages are involved then most likely the
>>>> application design is over complicated.
>>> Because you've been taught that C is over complicated in an
>>> optimization standpoint. Just to spit out the above in html/php/js/css
>>> in a C framework is simpler than you think. A little printf. And you
>>> speak of optimization, but lack the prethought for implementation for
>>> these optimizations.
>>> How can you move toward a lower level if you don't start on one. You
>>> seem stuck on the PHP portion of this, rather than the whole outlook
>>> of using multiple languages and technologies through a centralized
>>> means to accomplish a specific end, which can be easily optimized.
>> I thought the whole objective of higher level language is to provide
>> an easier application design and coding, in addition to shorter
>> development & maintenance time.  Why go back to lower level, isn't
>> that defeating the purpose?
> That was the point of the term 'prototyping'. A language used to
> prototype, but built on a framework of optimization, in which the
> prototype language can be eliminated for the lower level performance
> bottlenecks.

As I mentioned below, if PHP is sluggish, shouldn't it be brought up
to the PHP developers instead?  Why would you try include more

>> Just a case scenario.  If C is included to 'to spit out the above in
>> html/php/js/css' and should you happen to be out town/country on
>> vacation, the other developer(s) doesn't know C and the application
>> requires some minor bug fix or minor addition.  The problem is now
>> that modification required is in C.
> No, the problem lies in the error message, which lies in the
> underlying language. And familiarity with work is in properly
> commented and documented code. If the company isn't willing to
> maintain that throughout the course of development, then your
> misunderstanding is money out of their pocket.
>   Do you want your vacation
>> disturbed?
> For money, I comment and document, but disturbed isn't a problem, as
> long as it's a guaranteed under the contract.
> Except in the case of an emergency, I don't. :)
> But does the contract end at consumer misuse, or your discretion, and
> do they decide, or you? And then when does that end, when you're too
> important to respond, or had a better offer?
>  Not to
>> mention if where you're vacationing at have a fast internet
>> connection, or even an internet connection at all.  While this
>> approach may mean job stability in this situation, I could see it
>> opposite as it causes more down time for the business as being unable
>> to adapt quickly to the ever changing needs required by the economy
>> and/or customers/clients.  In the end, if the business can't stay in
>> business, you're out of a job.  In one of my recent job experience, I
>> was in a 3 person IT team.  d
> You mean you and a few guys/gals got together, and threw together an app?
> We have a DBA, developer (also the
>> manager), and I'm the system/network/telecom admin.
> You probably got a thesaurus, and small business guide to success too.

No, the DBA is needed because the amount of the data that our site
handles for the customers specific to local region.  The manager just
happens to be a software developer.  We only wrote codes because we
needed some functionality to improve efficiency of the site.  Prior to
writing the code, we had submitted a BRD to corporate for them to
provide us that functionality.  They said it's not necessary without
further explanation.  In the end, we all left the company because
upper management didn't seem to be really business & economic aware.
Even the site manager left the company too.  For me, when the CEO
gives a presentation about outlook for the company, he said that
'we're still trying to figure out why the company didn't meet last
year projections'.  This was 6 months in the new fiscal year.  I lost
all respect for upper management.  In all my job experiences, except
that company, all of the upper management are very concerned about how
on track is the company with the projections on a month by month
basis.  They all wanted daily, weekly, and monthly reports.  That
company didn't ask for any.

>   We all have cross
>> discipline experience and train ourselves in areas we lack for basic
>> support.
> Not going to argue there, see my response from experience above.
>  Every one of us don't have a problem taking a month vacation
> Vacation in IT is an oxymoron, and so is intellectual unavailability,
> especially with the current interconnectivity.

Is it?  In one of my job experience, a director once asked me why he
didn't see any problems from my area.  I simply told him that if he
did, then I wasn't be doing my job.  That being said.  Doing your job
means that you should still have a peace of mind to take a vacation or
sleep better at night.

>> out of the country when the other 2 to provide 24/7 support for the
>> facility.  Folks at other sites worries even if they try to take 2
>> weeks vacation and that's not even leaving country.  How fast and well
>> do you someone can be cross trained to learn C?
> Learn on the fly is hard, but easy if you like crash courses.
>   Even if just basic
>> support?
> You can't get a text message on holiday?
>> As for printf, PHP has that and print.
> Semantics, but not a logical programming focal point for a
> multi-language project.
>  Regarding learning and using
>> C, I had only 1 quarter of it in college and that was back in the
>> early '90s.  I don't remember C as an 'over complicated in an
>> optimization standpoint', IIRC, I just had problems with memory
>> optimization, but that's another issue.
> You have x available, and you allocate z. Optimization is like I said,
> just a refinement of the print to browser of headers and code. All you
> have to do initially is the php/html/js/css, and then spit it out.
> Then you refine the individual. What real C are you using until you
> get to the optimization And you're still seeing php as the center of
> languages. And all of the programming world is flat to you. Just plane
> PHP.

I guess I'll have to spend a few more quarters/semester learning C to
understand your meaning of C usage for optimization.  Though in the
past, I've never had problems optimization any code, in terms of # of
lines and execution time, written in any single language - Basic,
Pascal, ADA, or C.  And no, the programming world to me is not just
PHP.  When I recently got back into programming, I compared some of
the languages - PHP, ASP.NET (C#), and Java.  Each has it's own
uniqueness.  And all were written in C at the core.

>   But I haven't used it since
>> other than scanning the some source code for compilations W(A/I)MP x64
>> stack.  About optimization, isn't it more in terms of modular design
>> then including more languages than is necessary?  If PHP is sluggish,
>> wouldn't be best to bring it up to the PHP developers?
>>>> SQL = back end data storage
>>>> PHP = processing input/output, including back end data
>>>> HTML/XML = document layout for nice hierarchical format
>>>> JS/Flash = client side effects and processing to offload some server load
>>>> Each already designed and made to do the the specific function and are
>>>> nicely coupled together.  From the above, I've yet to see the need to
>>>> write C code for the PHP based application - with the exception of
>>>> threads, and let's not get into it again... lol.
>>> It's not a 'hard coded' C, it's just a print to the page with C as the
>>> conveyor for each. You can then utilize C to partition each language
>>> for refinement in the overall.
>>> --
>>> According to theoretical physics, the division of spatial intervals as
>>> the universe evolves gives rise to the fact that in another timeline,
>>> your interdimensional counterpart received helpful advice from me...so
>>> be eternally pleased for them.
> --
> According to theoretical physics, the division of spatial intervals as
> the universe evolves gives rise to the fact that in another timeline,
> your interdimensional counterpart received helpful advice from me...so
> be eternally pleased for them.

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