> As I mentioned below, if PHP is sluggish, shouldn't it be brought up
> to the PHP developers instead?  Why would you try include more
> complexity?

I'm sure it has, it's called benchmarks. And they can't top C or
Fortran, last I saw. But that is not the point. And did you not see my
point about how it's just an initial usage of C to put out php and
html/css/js, and that 'complexity' must be as simple as a printf
function in another language. Why don't you snatch your nose out of
php's asshole for a second to realize it's not the center of a
multilanguage project, and sometimes neither is C, or any other
language It's the consumers, or the designers, or yours.

>>> Just a case scenario.  If C is included to 'to spit out the above in
>>> html/php/js/css' and should you happen to be out town/country on
>>> vacation, the other developer(s) doesn't know C and the application
>>> requires some minor bug fix or minor addition.  The problem is now
>>> that modification required is in C.
>> No, the problem lies in the error message, which lies in the
>> underlying language.

If you don't know step by step function programming, or debugging,
then why are you arguing with me?

And familiarity with work is in properly
>> commented and documented code. If the company isn't willing to
>> maintain that throughout the course of development, then your
>> misunderstanding is money out of their pocket.

Nah, just your clients, and that should have been accounted for in
your project bid.

>>   Do you want your vacation
>>> disturbed?
>> For money, I comment and document, but disturbed isn't a problem, as
>> long as it's a guaranteed under the contract.
>> Except in the case of an emergency, I don't. :)
>> But does the contract end at consumer misuse, or your discretion, and
>> do they decide, or you? And then when does that end, when you're too
>> important to respond, or had a better offer?
>>  Not to
>>> mention if where you're vacationing at have a fast internet
>>> connection, or even an internet connection at all.  While this
>>> approach may mean job stability in this situation, I could see it
>>> opposite as it causes more down time for the business as being unable
>>> to adapt quickly to the ever changing needs required by the economy
>>> and/or customers/clients.  In the end, if the business can't stay in
>>> business, you're out of a job.  In one of my recent job experience, I
>>> was in a 3 person IT team.  d
>> You mean you and a few guys/gals got together, and threw together an app?
>> We have a DBA, developer (also the
>>> manager), and I'm the system/network/telecom admin.
>> You probably got a thesaurus, and small business guide to success too.
> No, the DBA is needed because the amount of the data that our site
> handles for the customers specific to local region.  The manager just
> happens to be a software developer.

Did he tell you that, or provide credentials? That;s what most project
heads do, I assume.

We only wrote codes because we
> needed some functionality to improve efficiency of the site.  Prior to
> writing the code, we had submitted a BRD to corporate for them to
> provide us that functionality.  They said it's not necessary without
> further explanation.  In the end, we all left the company because
> upper management didn't seem to be really business & economic aware.
> Even the site manager left the company too.  For me, when the CEO
> gives a presentation about outlook for the company, he said that
> 'we're still trying to figure out why the company didn't meet last
> year projections'.  This was 6 months in the new fiscal year.  I lost
> all respect for upper management.  In all my job experiences, except
> that company, all of the upper management are very concerned about how
> on track is the company with the projections on a month by month
> basis.  They all wanted daily, weekly, and monthly reports.  That
> company didn't ask for any.
>>   We all have cross
>>> discipline experience and train ourselves in areas we lack for basic
>>> support.
>> Not going to argue there, see my response from experience above.
>>  Every one of us don't have a problem taking a month vacation
>> Vacation in IT is an oxymoron, and so is intellectual unavailability,
>> especially with the current interconnectivity.
> Is it?  In one of my job experience, a director once asked me why he
> didn't see any problems from my area.  I simply told him that if he
> did, then I wasn't be doing my job.

Maybe by 'problems' he meant other than what you think are problems.
ANd maybe he thinks your job is to report maybe employee unhapiness,
instead of employee misbehavior, maybe the miscommunication is in
terminology of the word "problem"

  That being said.  Doing your job
> means that you should still have a peace of mind to take a vacation or
> sleep better at night.

But how does the client take peace of mind when you're unavailable?

>>> out of the country when the other 2 to provide 24/7 support for the
>>> facility.  Folks at other sites worries even if they try to take 2
>>> weeks vacation and that's not even leaving country.  How fast and well
>>> do you someone can be cross trained to learn C?

I can spit the same thing out in php, as well as in C with very little
reference to either.

>> Learn on the fly is hard, but easy if you like crash courses.
>>   Even if just basic
>>> support?

Define basic support, I barely ask questions, and I read docs mostly.
I might take longer, but it cost way less to educate me, than compared
to some of my collegiate peers.

>> You can't get a text message on holiday?
>>> As for printf, PHP has that and print.
>> Semantics, but not a logical programming focal point for a
>> multi-language project.
>>  Regarding learning and using
>>> C, I had only 1 quarter of it in college and that was back in the
>>> early '90s.  I don't remember C as an 'over complicated in an
>>> optimization standpoint', IIRC, I just had problems with memory
>>> optimization, but that's another issue.
>> You have x available, and you allocate z. Optimization is like I said,
>> just a refinement of the print to browser of headers and code. All you
>> have to do initially is the php/html/js/css, and then spit it out.
>> Then you refine the individual. What real C are you using until you
>> get to the optimization And you're still seeing php as the center of
>> languages. And all of the programming world is flat to you. Just plane
>> PHP.
> I guess I'll have to spend a few more quarters/semester learning C to
> understand your meaning of C usage for optimization.  Though in the
> past, I've never had problems optimization any code, in terms of # of
> lines and execution time, written in any single language - Basic,
> Pascal, ADA, or C.  And no, the programming world to me is not just
> PHP.  When I recently got back into programming, I compared some of
> the languages - PHP, ASP.NET (C#), and Java.  Each has it's own
> uniqueness.  And all were written in C at the core.

I said that, as in ancestory, and I meant as a standing point for
optimization. And I don't think you get that If in the end you'll move
toward it, then why not start out at the prototypes base roots. A
simple printf starts the whole process for your browser
interpretation, and if you knew so much, you'd know that.

>>   But I haven't used it since
>>> other than scanning the some source code for compilations W(A/I)MP x64
>>> stack.  About optimization, isn't it more in terms of modular design
>>> then including more languages than is necessary?  If PHP is sluggish,
>>> wouldn't be best to bring it up to the PHP developers?
>>>>> SQL = back end data storage
>>>>> PHP = processing input/output, including back end data
>>>>> HTML/XML = document layout for nice hierarchical format
>>>>> JS/Flash = client side effects and processing to offload some server load
>>>>> Each already designed and made to do the the specific function and are
>>>>> nicely coupled together.  From the above, I've yet to see the need to
>>>>> write C code for the PHP based application - with the exception of
>>>>> threads, and let's not get into it again... lol.
It's not a 'hard coded' C, it's just a print to the page with C as the
conveyor for each. You can then utilize C to partition each language
for refinement in the overall.
>>>> --

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