Plasma Meeting minutes 19-9-2016 via IRC
Present: bshah, Sho, Riddell, notmart, sebas
bshah:
- Two mobile IMG updates
- Build fix for discover packaging on MCI
- new appstream and packagekit
- now mobile have new kirigami based discover
- Got tips from mck182 on how to debug the accounts on mobile
- Updated all related packages to latest ones
- libkf5wallet-bin was not pulled in by default and hence signond was not
starting fully
- Further debugging output suggests adding accounts failed due to SSL
errors
- Was missing ca-certificates package (WAT!!?!)
- Now one can add accounts but can't sync contacts yet
- Will debug it further this week
- This week planning to update wayland and xwayland to newer version
- Reported multiple issues with wayland/multiscreen setup
notmart:
* week of mostly bugfixes
* fixed a couple of serious bugs in the systray for 5.8 (that could lead to
partially corrupted appletsrc config file)
* panel creation: first startup was behaviong different
* on first startup 2 views were created, now only one
** now panel creation by javascript is delayed as well, scripting adjusted to
take that into consideration (in order for panels to have a screen property
right after they are created)
* small layout fix in the splashscreen so now is like vdg wants
* a bit of handholding to opensuse guys (they forked sddm/lockscreen themes
rather than..configuring them)
* fixed bug in the kcolorscheme editor
* preparing for kirigami 1.1 release, that needs to be done before Plasma 5.8
(due to discover dependency)
Riddell:
* 5.8 is on thursday!
* please check over release announce https://www.kde.org/announcements/
plasma-5.8.0.php (although I'm reluctant for changes due to translations)
kbroulik:
* Fixed panelcontroller showing up *behind* the panels (probably Qt behavioral
change, it set "always on top" through KWindowSystem but Qt 5.7 seems to drop
that flag again if it's not set through QWindow flags, now sets both to be
sure :P)
* Fix for device notifier to only pop up ever if the device is actually listed
(fixes it popping up when dealing with snappy packages which mounts a loop
device)
* Crash fix on shutdown (keyboard layout thing crashing kded), could alleviate
kde neon shutdown taking forever as then kded quits gracefully and systemd
doesn't wait for it or its crash handler(?)
sebas:
- worked on plugin indexing in kcoreaddons, could save 200ms on Plasma
startup, not sure the added complexity is worth it
- will have to do some bugtracking w/ multiscreen
- to reply to journalists' query about LTS release
- will work a bit on kscreen design (feedback, prepare implementation bits by
cleaning up)
Full log attached.
--
sebas
http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.orgPlasma Meeting minutes 26-9-2016 via IRC
Present: bshah, Sho, Riddell, notmart, sebas
bshah:
- Two mobile IMG updates
- Build fix for discover packaging on MCI
- new appstream and packagekit
- now mobile have new kirigami based discover
- Got tips from mck182 on how to debug the accounts on mobile
- Updated all related packages to latest ones
- libkf5wallet-bin was not pulled in by default and hence signond was not
starting fully
- Further debugging output suggests adding accounts failed due to SSL errors
- Was missing ca-certificates package (WAT!!?!)
- Now one can add accounts but can't sync contacts yet
- Will debug it further this week
- This week planning to update wayland and xwayland to newer version
- Reported multiple issues with wayland/multiscreen setup
notmart:
* week of mostly bugfixes
* fixed a couple of serious bugs in the systray for 5.8 (that could lead to
partially corrupted appletsrc config file)
* panel creation: first startup was behaviong different
* on first startup 2 views were created, now only one
** now panel creation by javascript is delayed as well, scripting adjusted to
take that into consideration (in order for panels to have a screen property
right after they are created)
* small layout fix in the splashscreen so now is like vdg wants
* a bit of handholding to opensuse guys (they forked sddm/lockscreen themes
rather than..configuring them)
* fixed bug in the kcolorscheme editor
* preparing for kirigami 1.1 release, that needs to be done before Plasma 5.8
(due to discover dependency)
Riddell:
* 5.8 is on thursday!
* please check over release announce
https://www.kde.org/announcements/plasma-5.8.0.php (although I'm reluctant for
changes due to translations)
kbroulik:
* Fixed panelcontroller showing up *behind* the panels (probably Qt behavioral
change, it set "always on top" through KWindowSystem but Qt 5.7 seems to drop
that flag again if it's not set through QWindow flags, now sets both to be sure
:P)
* Fix for device notifier to only pop up ever if the device is actually listed
(fixes it popping up when dealing with snappy packages which mounts a loop
device)
* Crash fix on shutdown (keyboard layout thing crashing kded), could alleviate
kde neon shutdown taking forever as then kded quits gracefully and systemd
doesn't wait for it or its crash handler(?)
sebas:
- worked on plugin indexing in kcoreaddons, could save 200ms on Plasma startup,
not sure the added complexity is worth it
- will have to do some bugtracking w/ multiscreen
- to reply to journalists' query about LTS release
- will work a bit on kscreen design (feedback, prepare implementation bits by
cleaning up)
Log:
[11:58:49] <sebas_> Okay, meeting, chaps! Who's there?
[11:59:07] --> planhths (~manjar...@ppp079166018046.access.hol.gr) has joined
#plasma
[12:00:00] <-- sebas (~quas...@178-85-217-241.dynamic.upc.nl) has quit (Quit:
http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[12:00:14] <bshah> o/
[12:00:24] <notmart> me here
[12:00:36] <Sho_> here
[12:00:52] <Sho_> please hold why I try to plug in my IRC, I'm having problems
with PulseChat
[12:01:03] <sebas_> bit thinly spread, but let's just start
[12:01:08] <-> You are now known as sebas
[12:01:09] [NickServ] You are already logged in as sebas.
[12:01:14] <sebas> Sho_: what's pulsechat?
[12:01:20] <Sho_> a bad joke :P
[12:01:28] <Sho_> let's move on :)
[12:01:29] <sebas> ow, ok ... got it
[12:01:36] <Riddelll> meeting?
[12:01:37] <sebas> bshah's first
[12:01:41] <sebas> Riddelll: yessir
[12:01:42] <Riddelll> we just using IRC?
[12:01:48] <sebas> correct
[12:01:55] <bshah> ok..
[12:02:16] <bshah> - Two mobile IMG updates
[12:02:18] <bshah> - Build fix for discover packaging on MCI
[12:02:20] <bshah> - new appstream and packagekit
[12:02:22] <bshah> - now mobile have new kirigami based discover
[12:02:24] <bshah> - Got tips from mck182 on how to debug the accounts on mobile
[12:02:26] <bshah> - Updated all related packages to latest ones
[12:02:28] <bshah> - libkf5wallet-bin was not pulled in by default and
hence signond was not starting fully
[12:02:30] <bshah> - Further debugging output suggests adding accounts
failed due to SSL errors
[12:02:32] <bshah> - Was missing ca-certificates package (WAT!!?!)
[12:02:34] <bshah> - Now one can add accounts but can't sync contacts yet
[12:02:36] <bshah> - Will debug it further this week
[12:02:38] <bshah> - This week planning to update wayland and xwayland to newer
version
[12:02:40] <bshah> - Reported multiple issues with wayland/multiscreen setup
[12:02:42] <bshah> .next()
[12:03:23] <sitter> sebas: complicated
[12:03:35] <sebas> sitter: hey, ah
[12:03:41] <sitter> sebas: also you probably don't want a roll call in here.
last time people got angry ;)
[12:03:52] <sebas> yeah, understandably
[12:04:09] <sebas> I'll think of something later
[12:04:43] <sebas> notmart's next up
[12:04:49] <notmart> ok
[12:04:57] <notmart> * week of mostly bugfixes
[12:04:58] <notmart> * fixed a couple of serious bugs in the systray for 5.8
(that could lead to partially corrupted appletsrc config file)
[12:05:00] <notmart> * panel creation: first startup was behaviong different
[12:05:01] <notmart> * on first startup 2 views were created, now only one
[12:05:03] <notmart> ** now panel creation by javascript is delayed as well,
scripting adjusted to take that into consideration (in order for panels to have
a screen property right after they are created)
[12:05:05] <notmart> * small layout fix in the splashscreen so now is like vdg
wants
[12:05:06] <notmart> * a bit of handholding to opensuse guys (they forked
sddm/lockscreen themes rather than..configuring them)
[12:05:08] <notmart> * fixed bug in the kcolorscheme editor
[12:05:09] <notmart> * preparing for kirigami 1.1 release, that needs to be
done before Plasma 5.8 (due to discover dependency)
[12:05:10] <notmart> questions? next?
[12:05:34] <kbroulik> "due to discover dependency"?
[12:05:38] <kbroulik> aren't we already in dep freeze?
[12:05:43] <Sho_> discover needs a newer kirigami basically
[12:05:47] <Riddelll> notmart: you should really think of a better place to put
gpg signature details than a wiki for kirigami, kindae defeats the purpose of
authentication
[12:06:09] <notmart> open to suggestions
[12:06:16] <Riddelll> web a web site
[12:06:17] <Sho_> tattoo on your body
[12:06:19] <bshah> notmart: about on first startup 2 viewes were created, is it
possible reason for why panel was not loaded fully on phone?
[12:06:19] <notmart> not really going to have a standalone website
[12:06:37] <notmart> bshah: don't think so
[12:06:41] <Riddelll> doesn't plasma have a web site?
[12:06:44] <bshah> ok..
[12:06:56] <sebas> train a parrot to tell it to anyone who needs it!
[12:07:38] <notmart> Riddelll: https://www.kde.org/workspaces/plasmadesktop/ is
the only thing that remotely comes close to a website for plasma
[12:07:45] <Riddelll> mm
[12:07:53] <Riddelll> plasma-mobile.org, it is kindae mobile
[12:08:21] <sebas> perhaps somewhere along kde.org/download ?
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[12:09:24] <sebas> What about kbroulik's question about the freeze?
[12:09:42] <-> Riddelll is now known as Riddell
[12:10:02] <Sho_> i think it's a "we screwed up and are making an exception"
situation
[12:10:08] <notmart> i *hope* discover is rozen as well at this point, but ask
apol...
[12:10:19] <-> bcooksley is now known as bcooksley-away
[12:10:29] <sebas> well, it's part of kde/workspace releases, so it's not
apol's call alone
[12:11:06] -*- sebas notes that screwing up this release schedule will earn us
a lot of disappointment from suse
[12:11:41] <Sho_> my understanding is that working around the dep would be
hard, so basically there's two options for not doing it i guess:
[12:11:44] <Sho_> - bundle code with discover
[12:11:49] <Sho_> - make the discover rewrite wait three months
[12:11:52] <Riddell> can the kirigami release be done today?
[12:11:58] <notmart> sure
[12:12:36] <Sho_> my problem is that i expect that discover 5.8.x releases
might in turn need newer kirigamis
[12:12:39] <Sho_> since it's all very young code
[12:12:41] <sitter> release & bundle to bypass dep freeze? ;)
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[12:12:55] <sitter> Sho_ raises a very good point
[12:12:55] <Sho_> so the question is, is the kirigami-depending rewrite ready
for LTS?
[12:12:56] <notmart> i would so like to avoid that
[12:13:16] <sebas> are we including kirigami in kde/workspace releases?
[12:13:21] <sebas> (as another option)
[12:13:26] <sebas> then we'd ship updates together
[12:13:34] <notmart> ah, yeah, could be an option
[12:13:36] <Sho_> that might work for now
[12:13:37] <sebas> (and break our own freezes even more)
[12:13:42] <Sho_> it's similar to what we did with kactivitiesstats
[12:13:50] <Sho_> we had that in plasma-desktop until we detached it into kf5
[12:13:51] <notmart> why break our own freezes even more ?
[12:13:53] <Sho_> it was a mess tho
[12:14:01] <sebas> we've had multiple cases where stuff moves into
kde/workspace and then into frameworks
[12:14:07] <Sho_> right
[12:14:09] <Sho_> kwayland for example
[12:14:18] <sebas> notmart: dep freeze to me also means new repo freeze
[12:14:31] <Sho_> new repo freeze was at beta time yep
[12:14:49] <Sho_> but, better one break now than many breaks throughout 5.8.x
[12:14:51] <notmart> personally, i would have completely frozen kirigami
*months* ago
[12:15:05] <Sho_> because imho PR-wise we can't afford for the LTS cycle to be
a rollercoaster ride of new kirigami dependencies
[12:15:20] <notmart> i just keep receiving patches for discover because
$microfeature is oh so vital..
[12:15:40] <Sho_> well i mean that's fine, it's a new toolkit and writing apps
against it will lead to that
[12:15:47] <Sho_> it makes kirigami better, so that's not an issue
[12:16:12] <sitter> Sho_: TBH if it becomes necessary to need a newer kirigami
we could still just bundle it in discover at a later point
[12:16:16] <notmart> but if no workspace bit can depend from it, it's kinda
pointless to even ever having released it...
[12:16:32] <Riddell> I think requiring updates to kirigami after today for 5.8
is a no
[12:16:56] <Riddell> a release today should be fine
[12:16:58] <Sho_> sitter: then the question becomes whether we should just
bundle immediately and avoid the break totally
[12:17:11] <sitter> Sho_: that's solving a problem before it is a problem TBH
[12:17:11] <sebas> Riddell: if we do not release it as part of plasma
[12:17:16] <Sho_> sitter: fair enough yeah
[12:17:50] <Sho_> apol's input would be pretty useful right now
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[12:18:22] <pursuivant> oxygen-icons5 (master) v5.26.0-3-g2bb50c4 * Harald
Sitter: autotests (2 files)
[12:18:23] <pursuivant> import newlinetest from breeze-icons to align tests
again
[12:18:23] <pursuivant>
http://commits.kde.org/oxygen-icons/2bb50c49e34af530940eba192c21bac5e0f24506
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[12:18:59] <Sho_> lo apol
[12:19:13] <apol> hi
[12:19:25] <Sho_> apol: we're trying to figure out what to do with kirigami and
discover, because discover needs a newer kirigami, but we're technically
dep-frozen
[12:19:28] <Sho_> options on the table are:
[12:19:44] <Sho_> - make a kirigami release today, and if discover needs a
newer kirigami after we need to bundle code with discover
[12:19:50] <Sho_> - ship kirigami with workspace
[12:19:59] <Sho_> - make discover wait three months
[12:20:06] <Sho_> thoughts?
[12:20:31] <Riddell> we can't ship kirigami with workspace
[12:20:36] <Riddell> we can ship it bundled with discover
[12:20:44] <sebas> y?
[12:20:45] <Riddell> but I don't want new tars, that'll screw up distros
[12:20:52] <notmart> bundling would be the most broken imo
[12:20:59] <sebas> ow, sorry, "can", not "can't"
[12:21:05] <sebas> or in your case "caen't"
[12:21:10] <apol> Sho_: it was the idea to release today anyway, wasn't it?
[12:21:39] <Sho_> apol: yes, but basically we're already in dep-freeze, and
we're worried that discover will need newer kirigamis again in 5.8.x since both
the rewrite and kirigami are so young
[12:21:46] <Riddell> who's another distro? einar77? rdieter_?
[12:22:00] <-> ChetManly is now known as sarcasmking
[12:22:07] <notmart> well, i hope it won't
[12:22:13] <apol> it won't
[12:22:15] -*- Riddell preference is kirigami release today and discover not to
need anything newer in 5.8
[12:22:20] <-> sarcasmking is now known as ChetManly
[12:22:33] <Sho_> if we're confident about that, ok
[12:22:35] <sebas> ok, that would work then
[12:22:39] <apol> we might bugfix kirigami, we won't add new api
[12:22:42] <notmart> as i said, i consider it frozen since long time, just an
exception after another happens
[12:22:47] <notmart> exactly
[12:23:17] <notmart> to me was another case of vdg not getting that "it's
frozen" means "it's frozen"
[12:24:12] <Sho_> well i understand they're not schedule-aware, it's hard for
them since they're not so hands on with the release process
[12:24:16] <Sho_> so it becomes the maintainer's job to say "no"
[12:25:20] <Sho_> ok, I guess we've got a decision then?
[12:25:34] <sebas> sounds like it
[12:25:37] <notmart> i would like to do a release today and depend from that
[12:25:50] <sebas> I understand that that's the consensus
[12:25:52] <apol> +1
[12:25:53] <Riddell> groovy
[12:25:55] <Sho_> yup
[12:25:58] <sebas> cool.
[12:26:23] <notmart> besides getting badly out of sync (and in the end ending
up with a fork, i know how those things end up) bundling would also break
discover as soon there is also a system installed kirigami as well
[12:26:27] <sebas> Sho's turn
[12:26:47] <Sho_> Pretty light week, lot's of talking/writing but not a ton of
code:
[12:26:49] <Sho_> * Light fixing/patch review talks for 5.8, pretty quiet on
that front tho (good) ...
[12:26:51] <Sho_> * Tried for a while to fix "clicking task doesn't minimize
window when window housing delegate takes focus on mouse press" (desktop
widget, group popup window) but didn't find a good solution (also in old TM)
[12:26:52] <Sho_> * Started work (read: talking a lot) with Jens on a next-gen
fullscreen launcher/control panel currently named "Liftoff", will be used to
try out ideas for Application Dashboard without messing with it
[12:26:54] <Sho_> * Started writing KDE overview/intro talk for birthday party
in Gangnam, with slides in English and Korean ...
[12:26:55] <Sho_> * Looking into what's needed to get Simple Menu down to
QML-only so it can go on GHNS, needs upstreaming some Kicker backend mods
[12:26:57] <Sho_> * A few rounds of Neon Korean edition testing, it's now close
to perfect and already past the "what's needed" bar
[12:27:13] <Sho_> questions || next
[12:27:15] <sebas> insert gangnam style joke
[12:27:22] <sebas> apol: you want a turn as well?
[12:27:22] <Sho_> :)
[12:27:25] <Riddell> yay
[12:27:26] <sebas> Riddell's turn now
[12:27:41] <Riddell> 5.8 is on thursday!
[12:27:46] <Riddell> please check over release announce
https://www.kde.org/announcements/plasma-5.8.0.php
[12:27:54] <Riddell> although I'm reluctant for changes due to translations
[12:27:58] <sebas> want a more fancy screenshot
[12:28:02] <apol> sebas: I'm not sure what's going on :D
[12:28:06] <kbroulik> what about the video?
[12:28:09] <sebas> can we have the vdg make something nice?
[12:28:10] <apol> I was just summoned
[12:28:19] <Sho_> (oh forgot the link btw, Liftoff work is on
https://phabricator.kde.org/M72)
[12:28:20] <kbroulik>
https://www.kde.org/announcements/plasma-5.8/plasma-5.8-boot.png ? again, the
login is blue, isnt ti
[12:28:24] <Riddell> llucas was working on a video last week, hopefully he'll
finish it off in time
[12:28:27] <sebas> apol: just asking
[12:28:39] <sebas> more people during meeting is good, we're drying it out
otherwise
[12:28:46] <sebas> more relevant people that is
[12:28:50] <Sho_> apol: just the usual Monday Plasma meet
[12:28:57] <apol> ah it's on IRC now
[12:29:07] <Riddell> sebas: more fancy screenshot where? the larger first one?
[12:29:11] <Sho_> we got tired of audio issues this week
[12:29:18] <sebas> yes, the signature screenshot should be much nicer
[12:29:27] <apol> I don't think I have anything important to report
[12:29:27] <sebas> perhaps new discover, that looks secy
[12:29:43] <sebas> apol: discover work is important, though :)
[12:29:45] <Riddell> sexy discover screenshot, gotcha
[12:30:02] <-> einar77 is now known as einar77_work
[12:30:03] <Riddell> can anyone confirm the blue login? I've completely lost
track of what's blue and what's black
[12:30:11] <Sho_> maybe search for http://pornview.sourceforge.net/ in discover
[12:30:37] <sebas> Sho_: wow, porn *and* sourceforge
[12:30:45] <notmart> Riddell: login and lockscreen should be blue, boot ones,
like plymoputh and ksplash shuld be black
[12:30:49] <Sho_> sebas: "Mature"
[12:30:53] <sebas> doesn't get any classier than that
[12:31:42] <einar77_work> perhaps some of the plasma people may want to comment
on this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12578204
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[12:32:01] <sebas> einar77_work: there's nothing to go by really
[12:32:23] <sebas> he's right that nobody gives a shit about collaboration
though
[12:32:26] <Sho_> 'The Cinnamon guys, last I heard, want to switch to Qt but
don't have the developers to do it and would end up being a LXQt clone.' wat
[12:32:59] <sebas> so much bollocks
[12:33:14] <sebas> kbroulik's turn, however
[12:33:23] <kbroulik> * Fixed panelcontroller showing up *behind* the panels
(probably Qt behavioral change, it set "always on top" through KWindowSystem
but Qt 5.7 seems to drop that flag again if it's not set through QWindow flags,
now sets both to be sure :P)
[12:33:26] <kbroulik> * Fix for device notifier to only pop up ever if the
device is actually listed (fixes it popping up when dealing with snappy
packages which mounts a loop device)
[12:33:29] <kbroulik> * Crash fix on shutdown (keyboard layout thing crashing
kded), could alleviate kde neon shutdown taking forever as then kded quits
gracefully and systemd doesn't wait for it or its crash handler(?)
[12:33:39] <kbroulik> next
[12:34:23] <sebas> Who else is in? (otherwise I'm next and last)
[12:34:28] <sebas> wonder if I'm forgetting someone
[12:34:38] <Sho_> d_ed if he's here
[12:34:52] <sebas> is he, though? :)
[12:35:22] <Riddell> kbroulik: ++ on crash fix, where is that for testing?
[12:35:38] <kbroulik> kbroulik: the kded touchpad thing in plasma-desktop 5.8
branch
[12:35:47] <kbroulik> kded keyboard thing that is
[12:36:01] <kbroulik>
https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=plasma-desktop.git&a=commit&h=9d55c52f76cf831584d71d60a8806688f37ea0cc
[12:36:15] <sebas> okay, my turn:
[12:36:17] <sebas> - worked on plugin indexing in kcoreaddons, could save 200ms
on Plasma startup, not sure the added complexity is worth it
[12:36:17] <sebas> - will have to do some bugtracking w/ multiscreen
[12:36:17] <sebas> - to reply to journalists' query about LTS release
[12:36:17] <sebas> - will work a bit on kscreen design (feedback, prepare
implementation bits by cleaning up)
[12:36:28] <sebas> q || EOF
[12:37:09] <apol> FWIW, using metadata.json instead of metadata.desktop would
also be a bit of a win
[12:37:54] <apol> we have a not-very-efficient parser doing the translation at
the moment
[12:38:06] <sebas> apol: this is independent of .desktop files, though
[12:38:13] <sebas> but true
[12:38:28] <sebas> kpackage uses .desktop files, there the caching would
probably be more useful (I'll try that next)
[12:38:57] <sebas> we already have something in there, but I think it should be
improved
[12:39:16] <apol> sebas: kpackage can use both json and desktop
[12:39:23] <sebas> did we already allow kpackage to use .json files, btw?
[12:39:31] <apol> sebas: yes, I added it
[12:39:34] <sebas> ah nice
[12:39:51] <sebas> I'll have a look, we can't scrap .desktop files, but could
index them after parsing
[12:39:57] <sebas> (Which is what my patches do)
[12:40:42] <sebas> anything else?
[12:40:46] <sebas> (if not, meeting done)
[12:40:49] <apol> we can't scrap the code that parses desktop files but we can
change the desktop files in plasma into json, which will always be a big chunk
of what users load
[12:40:58] <sebas> yup
[12:40:59] <apol> (no sorry, didn't mean to interrupt the meeting)
[12:41:07] <sebas> that would be useful indeed
[12:41:20] <sebas> apol: that's actually quite ontopic
[12:41:24] --> KyriosBrastianos (~quas...@ipa99.19.tellas.gr) has joined #plasma
[12:41:34] <sebas> and we're not topic nazis as long as it's useful
[12:41:42] <apol> :D
[12:42:36] <sebas> meeting is finished, though :) thanks everybody for
attending!
[12:42:43] <sebas> will post minutes and log to the list
