My point was those abuses were addressed without the need of NN in the past. NN IMO was a too heavy handed and misguided approach to a situation which the previous system took care of.
Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 25, 2017, at 9:52 PM, Brian Cluff <[email protected]> wrote: > > I think you forget that the neutrality was put into place specifically to > deal with the network providers messing with netflix among other service's > data in favor of their own services. That IS how we dealt with it. > > You keep talking about being able to get optimized services, but those are > legal and common now. Getting rid of net neutrality won't enable those. > Throttling your competitors services to the point of degrading their service > isn't an optimized service. > > Brian Cluff > > >> On 11/25/2017 07:24 PM, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote: >> I do understand those concerns, but those types of abuses have existed in >> the past and were dealt with before there was Net Neutrality. I do really >> think that the bigger threat from the big content providers and not the >> ISPs. >> >>> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 7:12 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I hear you. If everyone would play fair I would think slicing up data >>> usage is fair. I watch a lot of YouTube, however I do not need 4k. My >>> main concern is for businesses who use the Internet to market and do >>> business. As you probably know there is a move from brick and mortar to >>> online stores and more so to selling on Amazon. >>> >>> If there is no net neutrality and GoDaddy invests in timewarner, then >>> timewarner could keep people from seeing your website that is hosted on >>> HostGator. Then Godaddy could coerce you into moving to GoDaddy or pay a >>> fee to GoDaddy or timewarner. >>> >>> I see some serious antitrust coming. We need to get ICAAN back and we need >>> to keep the Internet the Wild West to some degree. I do see Google is >>> headed for some antitrust law suites, and maybe Government oversight. >>> Government oversight is scary given how corrupt our Government is. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 2017-11-24 12:31, Herminio Hernandez, Jr. wrote: >>>> >>>> I will start with some thoughts on why I find the NN debate troubling. >>>> First there is a technical misunderstanding. NN is built on the idea that >>>> ISPs should treat all traffic equally. This concept is simply unrealistic. >>>> Bandwidth is a limited resource there is only so much data that a Ethernet >>>> port can transmit and receive. Also things like MTU size, latency, jitter >>>> all impact the reliable transmission of data which bring me to my other >>>> point. Not all traffic is the same. There are night and day differences >>>> between TCP and UDP traffic. For example UDP (which is what most voice and >>>> video is) is faster than TCP. The drawback to this is that UDP does not >>>> have the recovery features that TCP has in case of packet loss (ie >>>> sequence number and acknowledgment packets). There UDP applications are >>>> more prone to suffer when latency is high or links get saturated. To >>>> overcome this network engineer implement prioritization and traffic >>>> shaping to ensure these services are not impacted. >>>> >>>> As more content is consumed such as 4K video on the internet, the need for >>>> traffic shaping will only increase. Netflix already has the ability to >>>> push 100Gbps from their servers. That is a ton of data that needs to be >>>> prioritized by ISPs. This is not free there are serious costs involved in >>>> man hours and infrastructure. Someone needs to bear that cost. This is why >>>> I am not opposed to fast lanes. If Netflix is going to have ISPs ensure >>>> all of the massive amounts to data are push is delivered efficiently, then >>>> the ISPs should be free to charge a premium for this service. Netflix does >>>> not want to bear this cost, hense their support for Net Neutrality. They >>>> want the ISPs to bear the cost, but then result of that is we bear the >>>> cost via data caps. >>>> >>>> When you strip away all the slogans it all comes down to money and >>>> control. Data will be traffic shaped it is just >>>> who decides how unelected government bureaucrats pushing some public >>>> policy or market forces. >>>> >>>> Something else to consider a lot not all but a lot of the very same people >>>> who cry that the end of Net Neutrality will be end of free speech (no more >>>> free and open internet) have no issue saying >>>> Twiiter, Facebook, and Google (since they are 'private companies') have >>>> the right demonetize, obscure, or even ban individuals who express ideas >>>> that other deem "offensive". How is that promoting a "Free and Open >>>> Internet"? >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Eric Oyen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> well, as someone else suggested, a new thread. >>>>> >>>>> so, shall we start the discussion? >>>>> >>>>> ok, as mentioned, bandwidth is a limited resource. the question is How >>>>> limited? >>>>> >>>>> Then there is the question: can an ISP curtail certain types of traffic >>>>> (null route it, delay it, other bandwidth shaping routines)? How far can >>>>> they go? >>>>> >>>>> What really is net neutrality? >>>>> >>>>> lastly, what part does the FCC play, or should they? >>>>> >>>>> so, any thoughts on the above questions? >>>>> >>>>> -eric >>>>> from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, you got questions, we >>>>> got answers Dept. >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - [email protected] >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - [email protected] >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - [email protected] >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - [email protected] >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - [email protected] > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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