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I started this thread because I do not see any problems with PHP. I
think the community is trying to fix something that is not broke.
Yikes I probably just pissed-off a few people. I'm not here to fight,
I am here to learn.
I think what is broke is the community. The only thing that I think
is missing is a compiler or some sort of machine code
generator/interpreter like Java.
Please educate me.
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On 2022-08-28 01:09, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss wrote:
My opinion might not count for much since I don’t really program
with PHP, although I spent about a year with V4 in 2000. I do enjoy
looking at the language updates and seeing what small steps the PHP
language Gods take each time it’s updated. In contrast to C++, PHP
seems to be evolving at a snail’s pace.
Interesting. Not sure what needs to change. Any thoughts?
The issues about interpreted (aka, “scripting”) languages is
bogus. Python is now the #1 most popular programming language in the
world, and it’s interpreted. So there goes that theory.
https://skilldeck.org/learning/best-programming-language-to-learn [2]
My take on PHP is that it has been in a stuck-in-the-middle state for
20 years, between being a “structured/procedural programming” and
“object-oriented” language. Kind of like C++ was before V1.1 or so
was introduced.
I seem to recall about 5 years ago there was some debate going on
between the those who thought we should turn to procedural programming
and those who thought OOP was the only way.
I can see the need for both in PHP. PHP is often embedded in HTML and
i am thinking it needs to be procedural. There other times PHP is
used to create an app and OOP is probably the best approach.
Still, while you can use both to create OO code, you can also use both
to write horrid code that runs just fine and doesn’t use any of the
class-related language constructs.
Isn't that a hiring manager and team manager's issue not the language.
In 1988 I did a short internship at the city of Tucson. It was all
spaghetti code. Was that COBOL's fault or a lack of leadership. I
think it was a short coming in management.
It was a horrid experience.
Over the years, C++ has been embraced by the OOP community and you
don’t see anybody demanding that C++ compilers be able to compile
any old C code. The C standard is still evolving and it keeps taking
on bits and pieces of things inspired by C++, but it’s really still
not an OOP language.
What you said is disturbing. C and C++ ae two different languages.
It is my understanding C is not object oriented while C++ is. If
someone does not like C then move to C++ do not cross pollinate.
But I’ve heard PHP coders constantly complaining about the fact that
the use of classes in PHP kills performance. Yeah, as if Python users
think that’s even relevant! Python is 100% OOP right out of the
gate, and they seem proud of it. Both are interpreted, and both are
probably about as efficient compared with a compiled language. (Are
there any performance comparisons between equivalent PHP and Python
apps?)
Interesting. The minimalists continue to complain. Yikes!! I'm a
minimalist and also recognize server assets are cheap. So why worry
so much?
I have a friend that refuses to use WordPress because it is bloatware.
Yikes!! It really comes down to a business decision.
I spoke with a guy who was running two steel mills using a PHP web app
that ran on shared hosting.
If an OOP-based interpreted language can attain the "#1 most popular
language” slot and nobody cares about the little bit of overhead
that the OO part imposes on the execution time, then perhaps it’s
time for PHP coders to suck-it-up and learn how to REALLY code in OOP
idioms!
Please expand on OOP idioms.
Until then, it’s the PHP programming community that’s
shooting itself in the feet, not the language. Get rid of the
“holes” in the language that allow it to process old code that
breaks all of the encapsulation rules and make the use of classes more
direct rather than forcing the use of squirrly syntax that is
constantly reminding people “this isn’t really an object-oriented
language … but you can use it that way … IF YOU INSIST”.
I'd like to understand more, please expand on this.
This is 2022. Nobody teaches plain old structured/procedural
programming any more — they don’t even say they’re teaching OOP,
it’s just what all modern languages support today. Except PHP, which
cannot seem to decide if it’s ever going to grow up and let go of
its procedural roots.
(Perhaps a big part of the problem is all of the old procedural PHP
code that people are scared to refactor. So instead they just start
over in Python?)
Is that true? Do you think Python is the language that will topple
PHP?
-David Schwartz
On Aug 27, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss
<[email protected]> wrote:
Just in time to add another thread that might be as intense as the
sysd...etc thread.
For years I have heard that people say PHP is not a real language.
One guy says interpreted languages are not real programming
languages, they are scripting languages. I guess way back when I
was an xBase developer I must have not been a real programmer. Back
in the day The only compiled xBase was Clipper Summer 87 by
Nantucket Corp. I think it was possible to compile xBase code but I
never did except with Clipper Summer 87. I think Visual Fox was
compiled...
Another says the barrier to entry makes it possible for
non-professional programmers to get hired and to mess up the code
base. Isn't that a hiring manager's issue?
I think PHP is a great language and a lot of others must think so
too.
I really liked the decade long ride with PHP 5. I think 7 brought
some good changes in the area of speed and the removal of Register
globals.
PHP must be doing something right because it is run by upwards of
80% of the websites on the Internet.
I do think the PHP team is moving too fast. We now have version 8.
So what is wrong with PHP and where are we going in such a hurry?
And finally why does PHP have to be anything but simple stupid?
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