On 2022-08-28 02:23, Andrew McRobb via PLUG-discuss wrote:
Just my take on it, someone who used PHP very heavily from 2015 to
2018 and transfered to Go. My views maybe dated at this point...
It has its place in the ecosystem, there is no way around it, but it's
always going to be that language for engineering websites, that's it.
And that is what I do. However it is also used for server
administration. Plesk is an example.
It was mostly considered bloated and not really seen as good as using
Python in Unix environments. Python does package management right, and
you can go far beyond that if you wanted which makes it a amazing tool
and it's usually pre-installed.
As someone who develops API code using Go as a daily, I haven't looked
back at PHP since. GO does so many things right in comparison to PHP.
It makes writting APIs a snap and infrastructures are much simpler and
you can ship binaries! But for rendering websites, it has its
weaknesses and heavily depends on template engines if you aren't
writting a single web page application. This is maybe when you depend
on PHP, but front-ends like React and Angular have came so far that
having to mix front-end and backend code shouldn't be necessary these
days.
I use JavaScript/AJAX in the client and PHP on the server. Works Well.
Do not know much about these other languages.
Small Rant: I basically came to terms that no one language is always
the answer to everything and the circle jerks of languages is just a
waste of time, imho. Use what you love, if you like it and it works
and can scale to demand, good for you! But never also find yourself
stuck in a echo chamber, learn some Erlang, Rust. See what else is out
there. Heck you could find out your a Ruby developer at the end of the
day.
At my ripe old age I will probably stay with PHP until I die.
Interesting advice, thanks!!
On Sun, Aug 28, 2022, 1:09 AM David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss
<[email protected]> wrote:
My opinion might not count for much since I don’t really program
with PHP, although I spent about a year with V4 in 2000. I do enjoy
looking at the language updates and seeing what small steps the PHP
language Gods take each time it’s updated. In contrast to C++, PHP
seems to be evolving at a snail’s pace.
The issues about interpreted (aka, “scripting”) languages is
bogus. Python is now the #1 most popular programming language in the
world, and it’s interpreted. So there goes that theory.
https://skilldeck.org/learning/best-programming-language-to-learn
[2]
My take on PHP is that it has been in a stuck-in-the-middle state
for >20 years, between being a “structured/procedural
programming” and “object-oriented” language. Kind of like C++
was before V1.1 or so was introduced.
Still, while you can use both to create OO code, you can also use
both to write horrid code that runs just fine and doesn’t use any
of the class-related language constructs.
Over the years, C++ has been embraced by the OOP community and you
don’t see anybody demanding that C++ compilers be able to compile
any old C code. The C standard is still evolving and it keeps taking
on bits and pieces of things inspired by C++, but it’s really
still not an OOP language.
But I’ve heard PHP coders constantly complaining about the fact
that the use of classes in PHP kills performance. Yeah, as if Python
users think that’s even relevant! Python is 100% OOP right out of
the gate, and they seem proud of it. Both are interpreted, and both
are probably about as efficient compared with a compiled language.
(Are there any performance comparisons between equivalent PHP and
Python apps?)
If an OOP-based interpreted language can attain the "#1 most popular
language” slot and nobody cares about the little bit of overhead
that the OO part imposes on the execution time, then perhaps it’s
time for PHP coders to suck-it-up and learn how to REALLY code in
OOP idioms! Until then, it’s the PHP programming community
that’s shooting itself in the feet, not the language. Get rid of
the “holes” in the language that allow it to process old code
that breaks all of the encapsulation rules and make the use of
classes more direct rather than forcing the use of squirrly syntax
that is constantly reminding people “this isn’t really an
object-oriented language … but you can use it that way … IF YOU
INSIST”.
This is 2022. Nobody teaches plain old structured/procedural
programming any more — they don’t even say they’re teaching
OOP, it’s just what all modern languages support today. Except
PHP, which cannot seem to decide if it’s ever going to grow up and
let go of its procedural roots.
(Perhaps a big part of the problem is all of the old procedural PHP
code that people are scared to refactor. So instead they just start
over in Python?)
-David Schwartz
On Aug 27, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss
<[email protected]> wrote:
Just in time to add another thread that might be as intense as the
sysd...etc thread.
For years I have heard that people say PHP is not a real language.
One guy says interpreted languages are not real programming
languages, they are scripting languages. I guess way back when I
was an xBase developer I must have not been a real programmer.
Back in the day The only compiled xBase was Clipper Summer 87 by
Nantucket Corp. I think it was possible to compile xBase code but
I never did except with Clipper Summer 87. I think Visual Fox was
compiled...
Another says the barrier to entry makes it possible for
non-professional programmers to get hired and to mess up the code
base. Isn't that a hiring manager's issue?
I think PHP is a great language and a lot of others must think so
too.
I really liked the decade long ride with PHP 5. I think 7 brought
some good changes in the area of speed and the removal of Register
globals.
PHP must be doing something right because it is run by upwards of
80% of the websites on the Internet.
I do think the PHP team is moving too fast. We now have version
8.
So what is wrong with PHP and where are we going in such a hurry?
And finally why does PHP have to be anything but simple stupid?
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list - [email protected]
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1]
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list - [email protected]
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Links:
------
[1]
https://u2206659.ct.sendgrid.net/ls/click?upn=SJEG7TF39YLaAIMD0HhsfC6E-2FcJXOs2D1VhGcvn2YkObFLMBOC3gmante55BOqf2F-2ByuZjZxeWAcK3DSlXP4Xtp4dQImX1G2Oq-2BQoN6woQ4-3DIGUn_o-2BjQxMsWfboH-2B-2BcY2qb3IYCoqvthnvff9ftZz0pNEJ2tF1jbVlVBtrlaPYq4av3G-2Bt7mm8IMBuhSVqpCcnh12JGn5VGiBp4ej1D8wF4Jr4FTQlK7hoEK3EP8wIQljijQxbFmgL1DTcUs-2FK-2FluF7H6a3cTOBL2PtAMGgoX3WBKv4u8sIx0qipYDd9nqYkaVO6jawoylmYYYvBm5MyF-2BK45amc-2F04l8F1e4LxUBQA1xds-3D
[2]
https://u2206659.ct.sendgrid.net/ls/click?upn=SJEG7TF39YLaAIMD0HhsfJVUp5k4FPRQWFpjhE34mwwmabVu4BgQFRZ5Xq2IUprGzUTK3y1lVUwk6pWsIx2TMhl19zUBjc-2FtfGZ5-2Bt75qno-3DK04D_o-2BjQxMsWfboH-2B-2BcY2qb3IYCoqvthnvff9ftZz0pNEJ2tF1jbVlVBtrlaPYq4av3G-2Bt7mm8IMBuhSVqpCcnh12HsoQ-2BSiGw-2FyHTUky4JFaIjx5N3yakVaDRcDfXlnzwEr0d0hYkuXQ-2BqpePSh9x8ifL92Pji0rlXG52S0d-2FX1zORp0Eodq5GYOSdPU2fi8ffwT7Jc9xpfgMod0dxrFpVEeP6FVqeNGyel-2By4K7C3Jx0c-3D
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list - [email protected]
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list - [email protected]
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
