Yes, this may be a Linux list, but most of us have worked with or around people with H1B visas since the computing field attracts perhaps the largest number of such visa holders.
Congress does tweak things from time to time, and I’ve been out of the corporate loop for a few years now, so some details may be outdated. But for the most part, changes to immigration laws are few and far between. These people are employed by two distinct groups: either large companies, like IBM, MS, Apple, Google, eBay, etc; or small job shops that are typically run by a friend or extended family member from their home country that has set up a “job shop” and hired some people on H1B status so they can come to America. There are some distinctions I skimmed over in my post since most people don’t know many details. A foreigner needs a visa to come to America. As a student, they have one type of visa. If they are attending school here, they will probably interview for a job. If they get a job offer, it’s usually contingent on them getting an H1B visa, and that’s done by the company that wants to hire them. This company is also their “sponsor”, which all visas require. Each visa has a limited lifetime, and some can be renewed. If you’re on a student visa and want to change your visa (rather than extend it), you typically have to go back to your home country and deal with it there. There used to be a requirement that students to go back to their home country after graduating for two years, but perhaps that has been changed. They still have to go back to change their visa, but that can be done fairly quickly. Once an H1B visa has been granted, along with a work permit, and the person has become employed, they usually want to file for a "Green Card", which is what takes the longest time. Until their GC is either approved or denied, they’ll need to keep renewing their visa every few years, which will be done by their employer / sponsor. Once they get their GC, their visa expires. If they leave their employer/sponsor or any reason, their visa expires. If they’re arrested for some kinds of criminal activities, their visa can be cancelled. If they leave the country without a permit to return, they’ll lose their visa. FWIW, I sponsored a woman to come over here on a fianceé visa years ago. It was quite an ordeal. I learned far more about our immigration system and laws than I ever wanted to know, and I got a first-hand view of how totally screwed-up it is. It’s quite amazing that it works at all. I’ve also helped a couple of former employers prosecute H1B hires. It’s a total racket. Folks are certainly free to take a stand that, “I’m not getting involved with politics”. But if you want to see how horrible and even abusive 70 years of political string-pulling can get, just try becoming a sponsor for a foreigner who wants to come here for some reason, or to help a company hire someone on an H1B visa. You might also discover that perhaps 95% of everything said on the news media and in articles about immigration laws and policies are flat out wrong. It’s pretty much ALL politics, since most of it is lies and misleading information, most of it spoken by politicians themselves, who KNOW that most of what they say is wrong. The sad fact is, if you want to put an audience to sleep, discussing details about immigration laws is a great way to do it. I’d be suprised if anybody has even gotten to the end of my missive here. :) -David Schwartz > On Jul 1, 2025, at 8:38 PM, mike/r via PLUG-discuss > <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > > This is a Linux list, so I won't get into the politics. Corporate H1-B visas > are limited to 85,000, including 20,000 reserved for those with an advanced > degree. While recently around 600,000 visas are requested annually (both > corporate and otherwise), most are not granted. The visas generally last for > 3 years and can usually be extended another 3 years. In my (quite dated) > experience, graduates did not have to return to their home country. Do not > take any of this as my opinion on whether it should or should not be this way. > > > On 7/1/25 9:13 PM, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss wrote: >> I saw a video of part of a roundtable thing where there were HR reps from >> MS, HP, and some other major software employers, and the part I saw was >> about H1B candidates. This would have been about 10 years ago now. >> >> They said they budgeted $50k to prosecute every H1B visa. That’s JUST THE >> LEGAL FEES for the immigraion paperwork over time. >> >> There was also employee on-boarding, relocation, salary, and and other >> stuff. For the ones who were married, or got married later, they also >> included the visa / immigration costs for their family members as well. >> >> I wish someone would file a lawsuit against them in order to get to a >> Discovery phase where they can find out exactly how much they budget for job >> retrainingf or existing employees. >> >> Here’s some context: Companies that hire for DoD jobs take up around 70% of >> all BS graduates who are US Citizens, because they cannot hire foreigners. >> DoD hires account for a majority of MS and PhD grads who are also US >> Citizens. These employers do not have any incentive to pay for graduate >> school for these folks, so very few of them go on to graduate school. >> >> However, a significant number of STEM students, especially in Engineering >> and Computer Science, are foreigners. They can get their BS here and then >> their MS, but then they have to go back to their home country for 2 years. >> Predictably, this encouraged a lot of companies to set up facilities to hire >> these people in their home countries. But once that 2-year window is >> expired, many of them are brought to America. >> >> In order to qualify for an H1B visa, the person has to have relatively >> unique skills, and it’s very rare for someone without a MS or PhD to qualify >> for an H1B. >> >> Because DoD hires account for such a large percentage of US Citizens at all >> levels, it’s difficult for US employers to hire them. Which leaves >> foreigners as the largest pool of prospective employees — especially if they >> want to hire people with graduate degrees. >> >> That’s fine and dandy, but what’s wonky about it is why a company like MS >> would spend so much to hire H1B candidates rather than retrain US employees. >> It’s really very simple. >> >> The main reason is the length of time it takes to get a green card. The last >> I heard, it was taking nearly 10 years for people from India to get their >> GCs. Some countries are as low as 4-5 years. >> >> People on an H1B visa are earning a ton of money relative to what they’d get >> back home; they live cheaply and send most of their earnings to their >> families at home. The employer is paying for all of their immigration fees >> which is probably over $100k over time, if not more. >> >> But here’s the thing: because it takes so long to get the GCs, these people >> are basically slaves. They keep a very low profile, they never complain, >> will not argue with anybody, or do anything that might get them fired. >> Because if they leave, all of the funds paid by their employer are LOST and >> their application is immediatly dismissed. They have 30 days to find another >> employer willing to start over on their H1B from scratch … or they have to >> leave the country. >> >> Which is why when they have layoffs, the US Citizens are always the ones to >> get cut. Unfortunately, it’s NOT illegal, and is a very common practice. If >> it WAS illegal, these companies would probably move 100% of their software >> development off-shore. >> >> Personally, I think they should be required to EARN THE RIGHT to process H1B >> visas, showing they have spent some reasonable amount of money retraining >> say, 10 US Citizens in order to hire ONE new H1B candidate. Or pay to put >> ONE US Citizen through graduate school and earn a Master’s degree in order >> to hire ONE foreigner with a Master’s degree. >> >> As it is, there are NO restrictions on how many US Citizens they can layoff >> versus how many foreigners they can hire. >> >> The only limitation is that there are only 65,000 H1B visas per year, and >> that includes spouses and family members. They become available in October, >> and are usually all scarfed-up in a day or two. >> >> This is one of those things that will hopefully be fixed whenever Congress >> decides to fix our outdated, unfair, and mostly broken immigration laws. >> >> -David Schwartz >> >> >> >> >>> On Jul 1, 2025, at 4:45 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss >>> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> <mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> "Between May and June, Microsoft laid off 2,300 employees in Washington >>> alone, including 817 software engineers ... During the same period, >>> Microsoft submitted 6,327 H-1B visa requests for software engineer roles >>> matching the same job titles and location as those affected by the layoffs" >>> - As far as I know this is illegal. >>> >>> About 16 years ago I was on the Tucson Free Unix List and made a post about >>> H1B visas. I was met with a reply of "what's the matter are you afraid of >>> someone more skilled". I expect there are folks on this list that fee the >>> same way. >>> >>> H1B visas are bad for our country especially when there are plenty of >>> skilled people right here. >>> >>> I often wonder why Gates never created a school to teach the skills he >>> needs for his company. >>> >>> I'm 69 years old and when I take a trip down memory late I feel I would >>> have been better off staying in the field I was in and enjoy technology as >>> a hobby. It has been a rough ride. I feel for those being laid off and >>> especially those being laid off so some really rich folks can take >>> advantage of the system. >>> >>> Bravo to those who are ditching M$ for Linux. I have tried multiple times >>> and I think October (end of life for M10) will be the end of M$ for me. >>> >>> https://www.wnd.com/2025/07/microsoft-dumps-thousands-american-workers-favor-cheaper-foreign/ >>> >>> <https://www.wnd.com/2025/07/microsoft-dumps-thousands-american-workers-favor-cheaper-foreign/> >>> >>> Peace, Out!! >>> Keith >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> <https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> <mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> <https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss> > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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