On 12/22/06, manny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, Dean Michael Berris wrote:
> Transparency can only be defined between two parties. It doesn't
> require that something be available to the public for it to be
> transparent
Unless the transactions involve PUBLIC MONEY. You forgot that.
Not really... The government can buy generic drugs and not get the
formula in the process: but the price and the terms are public
information.
> Here you go again. Read section 6 again, and look at the GPLed "Hello,
> World!" example I've been touting forever and ever.
More scare tactics. That ain't a loophole and nobody can make that stick,
except maybe in some paranoid FUDmeister's fantasy.
So now you're calling me a paranoid FUDmeister? Or is it just a clever
attempt at making me look bad... Go ahead Manny, you're really looking
more juvenile now...
> THE FOSS BILL IS A TECHNOLOGY ISSUE!!!
Wrong again. It's a FREEDOM ISSUE. The bill is technology-neutral. It does
not advocate any technology. But it does promote a way of dealing with
technology thru the license. The license of a software solution is just as
valid a standard for judging its merit as any "technical" issue you can
dream of because it too has real, practical implications for the software,
its cost, and its use. It may not be the only one (and the FOSS bill doe
snot make it the only one), but it's just as important a standard.
Okay, let's define some things here.
Main Entry: tech·nol·o·gy
Pronunciation: -jE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -gies
Etymology: Greek technologia systematic treatment of an art, from
technE art, skill + -o- + -logia -logy
1 a : the practical application of knowledge especially in a
particular area : ENGINEERING 2 <medical technology> b : a capability
given by the practical application of knowledge <a car's fuel-saving
technology>
2 : a manner of accomplishing a task especially using technical
processes, methods, or knowledge <new technologies for information
storage>
3 : the specialized aspects of a particular field of endeavor
<educational technology>
From http://webster.com/dictionary/technology
Software is a technology. The FOSS Bill is about procuring Software
for government and requiring it (the government) to choose FOSS over
Proprietary Software in all cases, unless there is no suitable FOSS
solution and that the choice for Proprietary Software is justified.
How can a bill about Software in Government be technology neutral?
You may want to avoid the freedom issue just to make your FUD stick, but
it just isn't being bought by everyone.
You want to talk freedom? Let's talk Freedom.
Main Entry: free·dom
Pronunciation: 'frE-d&m
Function: noun
1 : the quality or state of being free: as a : the absence of
necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b : liberation
from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : INDEPENDENCE
c : the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from
something onerous <freedom from care> d : EASE, FACILITY <spoke the
language with freedom> e : the quality of being frank, open, or
outspoken <answered with freedom> f : improper familiarity g :
boldness of conception or execution h : unrestricted use <gave him the
freedom of their home>
2 a : a political right b : FRANCHISE, PRIVILEGE
synonyms FREEDOM, LIBERTY, LICENSE mean the power or condition of
acting without compulsion. FREEDOM has a broad range of application
from total absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly
hampered or frustrated <freedom of the press>. LIBERTY suggests
release from former restraint or compulsion <the released prisoner had
difficulty adjusting to his new liberty>. LICENSE implies freedom
specially granted or conceded and may connote an abuse of freedom
<freedom without responsibility may degenerate into license>.
From http://webster.com/dictionary/freedom
See the definition #1: "the absence of necessity, coercion, or
constraint in choice or action"
So requiring the government to choose FOSS over Proprietary Software
in all cases unless absolutely unavoidable is freedom?
> If you cannot see this in the bill's current form, then you either
> have major brain damage, or have been drinking too much RMS' koolaid
> -- or reading a different bill.
Oh wow, I am SSOOOO hurt. Grow up.
And calling me FUDsy makes you less juvenile than you actually look
like right now? Please...
> I am not misrepresenting anything:
I think you ARE. You can deny it all you like, but your posts tell a
different story.
Think what you like, but I have not claimed any part of making the
Bill or making claims as to what the Bill's intentions are. I'm
offering an interpretation, but I'm certainly making no
representations...
> I make no attempt of representing the bill: we already have the
> (silent) authors of the bill on the list. Only THEY can make a
> representation of this abomination called the FOSS bill.
Uh, no. So can you.
Here's the definition of "misrepresent" from Merriam-Webster:
1 : to give a false or misleading representation of usually with
an intent to deceive or be unfair <misrepresented the facts>
2 : to serve badly or improperly as a representative of
You are not guilty of the second definition. That's true. You are,
however, guilty of the first. You give a FALSE or MISLEADING
representation of thje FOSS bill, especially with that nutty "Hello World"
alleged "loophole". It's quite ridiculous really.
To give a false or misleading representation of usually with an intent
to deceive or be unfair.
I have not made any misrepresentations here. I have been arguing to
show that the FOSS bill is against my convictions on fairness and
equality. Giving preferential treatment for FOSS in Government --
which is what the FOSS bill is talking about in Section 6 of the Bill
in question -- is what I have been challenging all this time.
If you think a "Hello World" program turning into an OS is ridiculous,
then you should start thinking about using Linux again, because it
started out from something even less than a "Hello World" program.
And no Manny, Misrepresentation is done by saying this: "The FOSS Bill
is a solution to the Government's fiscal problems in the long run."
because it's representing the FOSS bill as a solution to the fiscal
problem of the Philippine government which it isn't. It's a set of
recommended rules and amendments to other laws to recognize the
viability of FOSS solutions in government systems and prefer it
qualitatively over other solutions which are deemed non-FOSS.
Misrepresentation is pretending to be something you're not. I don't
intend to pretend that I agree with the FOSS bill in its current form
because I don't agree with it. I don't represent the FOSS bill as
something that it's not by calling it what it is.
I have hover interpreted it in a way which makes sense to me, and
unless you have anything to say against my interpretation aside from
it being "ridiculous" or your favorite three letter word FUD, and
actually making a direct counter-argument, then I think you're
diverting the issue towards your personal attack on me and my person.
> I ignore your trying to make me look so because I continue to exercise
> my democratic rights to air my thoughts and stand on a public mailing
> list which apparently you have taken to a new level by posting
> libelous statements of my alleged misrepresentation of the FOSS bill.
Try suing me. Any half-ass lawyer can make you look foolish. I'll enjoy
that one too.
Oh no, you're not worth more than the time I spend defending myself in
public from your personal attacks on me. I don't think you're worth
much at all Manny after all the claims you've been making about me
misrepresenting the FOSS bill anyway. You might think I'm
misinterpreting it, or offering a non-popular interpretation, but no
you chose to call me FUDsy.
> What made you think I'm trying to deceive anybody when all I've been
> doing is airing *MY* interpretation of the bill's motives?
Your interpretation CAN misrepresent, as can anyone's. Just because it's
your opinion doesn't mean it cannot deceive, or do the opposite and tell
the truth. See the definition of "misrepresent" above.
I did not mean to deceive: I was offering a different interpretation.
Now that as far as I am concerned is my opinion. What it does to what
other people's opinions are is pretty much out of my control. Now as
for the intentions, I have never intended to deceive anyone because
I've only been honest about my opinion. My airing of my opinion is
intentional, and the intention was for argument's sake.
> obvious yet, I'll make it obvious for everyone else now: you hate my
> guts for opposing this FOSS bill because YOU STAND TO GAIN FROM IT.
Ouch, ouch! Bwahahaha!
I wouldn't be any happier or richer if you were discredited, or proven to
be a pedophile, or even Bill Gates in disguise. You get my responses
because you make the MOST STRIDENT MISREPRESENTATIONS of the FOSS bill.
I don't have anything against you, but I have something against the
garbage you post here. You keep posting it, so you keep getting the
fallout from it.
Garbage eh? So is that why you haven't made a solid argument against
what I've been saying?
And it's true Manny, you and all the other FOSS advocates here (like
me) stand to gain from the FOSS bill. But that however, hasn't made my
judgment of the FOSS bill change: I still think the mandatory nature
of making FOSS the default choice by law is unfair and should be
changed.
Now, just because I make the most convincing argument (or most
STRIDENT MISREPRESENTATION as you would call it) or am the most
adamant opposition shouldn't give you the "righteousness" to make
claims such that I am misrepresenting the bill.
You're just like the congressmen who love the grand-standing 5 minutes
they are given every time they get to the podium. And because I'm the
most vocal person regarding my opinion here, you chose to call me
FUDsy. Nice strategy Manny, go after the loudest mouth to make you
look more juvenile by the post.
Call me FUDsy again... Because it sure feels like you're afraid of me
and my well-articulated opinion of the FOSS bill. Make me stop by
calling me FUDsy. Good luck with that.
If you can't take the heat, stop whining and leave the kitchen.
Good Luck with that... Obviously you don't know me, because when the
heat is on, I ain't the first one out of there.
And if you think I'm feeling the heat already? Then you really don't know me.
Sticks and Stones Manny... Sticks and Stones.
--
Dean Michael C. Berris
http://cplusplus-soup.blogspot.com/
mikhailberis AT gmail DOT com
+63 928 7291459
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