On Dec 9, 2007, at 9:15 AM, Holden Hao wrote: > > Access is an issue of the digital divide debate but in itself it does > not solve the problem of education. Giving people a computer and the > Internet is not an efficient method for education. It is the same as > giving people access to a library. It helps but it is not an > efficient method. According to research by Dr. David Jonassen, it is > best to use a computer to "learn with" rather to "learn from". The > computer + Internet is mostly a "learning from" type where the focus > is on the delivery of content. The "learning with" type requires an > application (or method) designed in order to stimulate or assist in > the learning process. The best type of which from my research is > through simulated video games. > > The use of video games might take some people by surprise as it is not > usually associated with learning. As a matter of fact most parents > feel that video games do the opposite. They prevent or hinder > learning. The problem really is the _content_ and not video games per > se. However, there is a lot of learning being done but not in the > area of what the educational institutions require. In playing video > games like Counter Strike you learn about war, assault strategies, > etc. and not math, science, etc. But there are some game titles > already that are not only fun but educational as well. The Sims > series are of the variety. You might have heard of the news that Sim > City would be donated to OLPC. It is a very good addition to the > applications bundled with the OLPC. >
yep. i know. don't get me wrong-- i totally agree that all the research and all the technology are valid, great reasons. and i love sim city, and spore would be a great way too if people ever get that to ship. i seriously do not doubt all the things you've written and actually totally agree with that. i don't doubt the software and the intent and the commitment of the proponents of olpc. >> dollars with X decades experience company, who would you likely think >> will be preferred? > > If you want a fast computer naturally you would go for the big name > brands you mentioned. But if you look at what it can do for you, then > you have to think again. You have a fast computer that can do what? > It is just an all purpose device. It can be turned into an > educational tool but the companies that sell them don't do that for > you. > we only have to look at Windows and say, even the not so good ideas proliferate and succeed. seriously now, i was thinking of some minister of education or a member of civil service of some african nation--- with all that politics and all that red tape, not SO unlike the Philippines. forgive my cynicism, all things considered government no matter what face or where it leans on politically has red tape and extreme politics and often the bad kind. >> it probably would have been best if negroponte just got the software >> from mit and mated that with say an EEEPC-like device instead of >> building his own. who knows? it is water under the bridge now. > > Before OLPC, these companies did not think of these devices. The OLPC > paved the way. However, they are maligning the efforts of the OLPC by > turning the focus as a technology project rather than an educational > one. > guess you missed my third paragraph when i wrote: "but there is some good that came out of it. the olpc woke intel up. first time they actually made a laptop. it changed the market. plus there are more manufacturers now dropping prices... 499 dollar laptops are more common now than when olpc was first announced. given the right market condition, prices could still change. microsoft too i think also contributed to intel's initiative by putting in windows. they got scared all those kids will be learning linux now and will expect their machine to be linux when they grow up." >> first to provide food on the table then education for the young are >> the keys to bringing a nation out of poverty. put in another way, >> wouldn't it be better if say, Intel would put up a plant in Thailand >> or Nigeria to hire several thousand people to work thereby giving > > To do what? These people might not have the skills. It is a difficult > problem of the "chicken and egg" variety. The best perhaps is an > approach that equally tries to solve the problem. The OLPC is meant > to solve the educational one. The other problems should be addressed > as well but is beyond the immediate goals of the OLPC. > ok "intel" probably was the wrong company to call in. my point there really was, people rave all they like about "fighting poverty" and put it in t-shirts and all that. the best place is to build jobs, build infrastructure--- roads, farms, schools, in otherwords generate wealth and with that wealth invest in education, in more livelihood. Anyway i concede that in the grand scale of things OLPC does address an aspect of the over all problem that is "fighting poverty" by going at it through education, which isn't bad at all. but i wasn't looking at OLPC as technological problem to be solved nor an educational one. i argue that the educational and technological aspects have been solved by MIT and is a non-issue. why? OLPC is a great device. everyone here knows that. we all agree how great it is. we know it runs linux--- which is awesome. we know the research works. we know that even the worst idea to come out of MIT is better then a lot of people's best idea. By far, OLPC from an education and technological standpoint is certainly not one of their worst ideas. OLPC as an organization encountered, i seriously think were huge monumental missteps at the beginning--- politics-wise not education- wise nor technology-wise. by not bringing heavy weights like Intel into the table (politics, not technology) early on, they created competition, which turned out to be good for us, just not for the OLPC. I think the hype and the long gestation period hasn't helped OLPC at all nor the increase in price. the infamous war between negroponte and intel leaves a bitter memory for example. it could have been a personality issue: Negroponte doesn't exactly have star power status the level of say Bill Clinton or Bill Gates or Al Gore. In the absence of star power, there is a reason why multinationals have local reps, those guys need people who know the language and the culture. It's not like Negroponte has those resources at his disposal. it could be a case organization taking on more than it can chew. it could be a dozen other reason why OLPC hasn't been the success it should have been. That said, having experienced firsthand how painful it is to deal with governments and little projects like this--- getting to do it for one nation let alone several others all at once is a Herculean task. why i agreed with Dvorak is because i know how these projects would have to go. the hoops you have to jump over. that was his point too. it isn't as simple and as clear cut as shaking hands with the prime minister and saying, do we have a deal? heck, even with contracts if the government in power gets thrown out, you can just forget about it picking up where you left off. you'll be doing things all over again. the boys and girls of OLPC have to be commended for their commitment to Open Source. they really are an open source shop. The brilliant boys and girls of MIT did a marvelous job with OLPC's technology and the application of technology to education is awesome. No one doubts that. The uphill battle OLPC now faces has nothing to do with how good it is or how sound the research is. Forgive my cynicism, it falls on economics of scale-- how much volume can they crank out so that the price drop? Economics of Scale in turn is caused by politics--- volume is determined by how many governments are signing up? it's not like they can just produce them and drop them off like Santa does on Christmas Eve, isn't it? it's just that messy and if someone can Write Code on how to clean up things like that. That's a Nobel right there. ------------------ Cocoy "People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware." --Alan Kay _________________________________________________ Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List [email protected] (#PLUG @ irc.free.net.ph) Read the Guidelines: http://linux.org.ph/lists Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph
