On Fri, 2002-12-13 at 13:03, Ian C. Sison wrote: > And in the real world, i love dependency checks. They allow me to focus > on what i have to do, not the nitty gritty of finding out for myself the > dependencies or which files belong to what package. >
you do, but sorry ive had not very good experience regarding dependency checks in mandrake 8.0 -- when i wanted to install some application i really needed to use (which came with the distro CD's), the packages needed some package, which in turn needed some package, which... you get my drift? but in slackware (i speak specifically on slackware experiences ive had), i just get either the binary packages available online, or my preferred method would be to get the source, and READ the DOCS to see what i need to do to get the app running. I (personally) do not want to leave anything to chance when it comes to my box, thus my dislike of automatic dependency checks that tend to tell you what you would otherwise know if RTFD beforehand. > And yes, there has been talk about bloat. What bloat? How exactly do you > define bloat? I define it as unecessary information or programs that > impede or slow down my prductivity. Can RPM be considered bloat? Of > course not. You can go your own merry way without even touching the damn > thing (as most 'tarball' enthusiasts do today). > bloats in the kernel, and the system overall. some distro's, like mandrake (in my experience) installed stuff i never really wanted in my system. and say for the modified 'specialized' kernels, i'm sorry but im no fan of those either. but in slackware, you get a vanilla kernel, and if you want, you can patch it all you want. that's what i want to have over my system -- control. and with control, you can get it tends be leaner, and more effective with less of the bloat (-- unwanted stuff you get nonetheless). > And when I use the RPM or APT dependency checks do i slow down my > productivity? I would think not, because dependency checks and > 'auto-downloads' of dependent packages are tools created by people who > precisely got tired of doing these things manually in the first place. > So what is more productive, the manual method or the automated one? > in my case, it does and did - even thrashed my box which prompted me to switch back to slackware after a harrowingly bad experience with mandrake 8.0. so did the automatic dependency check make me more productive in my case? im sorry it didn't. > So if it's not the procedure and the applications, where else is the > bloat? Is it in the several megabyte files in /var/lib/rpm? Cmon, you > can't even get a hard disk smaller than 10GB these days. > this doesnt mean that the bloat is not there. > REAL package management is an advancement in Linux distribution > technology, not a bloated feature nobody or very few will use. It has > allowed Linux to be more maintainable, and provides a structure by which > developers can create applications that fit in snugly into a system with > the least possible hassle. > ever wondered why the slackware packaging system is still around? yes, there are fancy dependency checks, and auto-install features in some packaging systems which i may repeat -- I (personally) DO NOT NEED. that which i do not need is bloat to me. but ill face it. sure, slack doesnt offer these services so its just mandatory that i not need it in my current situation. but i've been able to work without it, which goes to show that yes, i can live without automatic dependency checks. sure, i'm a bit masochistic you may say, but then that's me. ;) > If some may claim to not need it, that's their choice and later on, their > problem. Its important that everyone else using linux should realize the > value that package management gives to a distribution. > i beg to differ. see above. > 'Best practices' always should include selecting distributions with mature > package management, with a very dynamic package development team. This > makes the systems deployed using it up to date, more maintainable and much > easier to administer. > > best practices says who? pkgtool is mature. but if some dumb know-it-all would try to do something which he has no knowledge about, then there we'll have problems. slackware 8.1 is up to date, have you seen one working already? it is very maintainable, and easier to administer IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. well dont trust my word for it -- try if for yourself if you havent. now if you're not like me who doesnt want the easy way out of things, and shortcuts for the job, then suit yourself -- we're two different people after all. ;) chill... ;) -- -=[mikhail]=- _ Philippine Linux Users Group. Web site and archives at http://plug.linux.org.ph To leave: send "unsubscribe" in the body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fully Searchable Archives With Friendly Web Interface at http://marc.free.net.ph To subscribe to the Linux Newbies' List: send "subscribe" in the body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
