Fine, I'll fiddle with the reply-to line and move it. I haven't had a good flamewar in a while, and this guy is gonna end up crying into his broke-ass propaganda websites.
On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 10:25 PM Russell Senior <[email protected]> wrote: > Plug-talk, please. > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 22:23 Jim Karlock <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Why do you continue to spam this list? > > > > That is a fake web site, put up, presumably, buy one of Portland's > > progressives that have problems with being told actual facts against > > their propaganda. > > > > Thanks > > JK > > DebunkingPortland.com > > DebunkingClimate.com > > > > > > > > > > At 10:05 PM 9/22/2019, Ben Koenig wrote: > > >Wait, hold on Jim... > > > > > >Is this you?? > > >https://karlockformetro.blogspot.com/2009/11/we-are-winning.html > > > > > >Facts? You want to talk about Facts? What about this one here: > > > > > > > > > > > >On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 9:57 PM Ben Koenig <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > LOL! > > > > > > > > Conservative activist in the Portland area? Dude, there is nothing > for > > you > > > > to defend. Your attitude is combative, and follows the pattern of > > russian > > > > trolling. > > > > > > > > But hey, I guess that's why we have a PLUG-Talk list. If you want to > > make > > > > everything a "Me VS The Other Guy" battle, go find yourself an > > appropriate > > > > forum. Oh wait! Sorry, it appears people have a tendency to kick your > > ass > > > > to the curb: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://blogs.columbian.com/all-politics-is-local/jim-karlock-got-kicked-out-of-a-league-of-women-voters-forum/ > > > > > > > > I'm reading your text, and seeing a sad little man who starts off > topic > > > > conversations, then hides when confronted. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 9:40 PM Jim Karlock <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> At 08:55 PM 9/22/2019, Ben Koenig wrote: > > > >> >Maybe this is just me, but my inbox has a message where someone > used > > this > > > >> >conversation to pivot into a pro-Trump, anti-Obama rant for no > > particular > > > >> >reason. > > > >> > > > >> "pivot into a pro-Trump, anti-Obama rant" for observing that "Trump > > > >> is cleaning up some of the faster than Obama did. That sounds a lot > > > >> like hyper liberal exxageration to me. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >Does anyone know who "Jim Karlock" is? > > > >> Look me up on Google Scholar. > > > >> > > > >> > I'm wondering if he even uses linux > > > >> YES. Not very proficient, but I use it almost daily. > > > >> > > > >> >because he just fired off a lot of hyper conservative BS in a very > > short > > > >> >amount of time. > > > >> > > > >> Hyper conservative BS?? Interesting characterization of a counter > to > > > >> hyper greenie BS! > > > >> > > > >> Look up the factual accuracy of what I posted and compare it to the > > > >> other guy. Please do not use any greenie web sites that raise money > > > >> be scaring people about the environment as sources. EPA will have > the > > > >> data. Look at the data, not the text as that is often political. > > > >> > > > >> BTW - this is a lot off topic, so, having defended myself, lets call > > it > > > >> quits. > > > >> > > > >> Thanks > > > >> JK > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 7:06 PM Brian Rohan <[email protected] > > > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > Not sure why the homelessness is a topic on PLUG, unless they > are > > > >> homeless > > > >> > > because they don't have an IPv6 address. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 6:51 PM Mike C. <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:27 PM <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Send PLUG mailing list submissions to > > > >> > > > > [email protected] > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > >> > > > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > >> > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > >> > > > > [email protected] > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > >> > > > > [email protected] > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > > > >> specific > > > >> > > > > than "Re: Contents of PLUG digest..." > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Today's Topics: > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > 1. Re: IP tracking (Ben Koenig) > > > >> > > > > 2. Re: How we treat the homeless... (John Jason Jordan) > > > >> > > > > 3. Re: PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM (Denis Heidtmann) > > > >> > > > > 4. Re: How we treat the homeless.. (Mike C.) > > > >> > > > > 5. Re: IP tracking (Rich Shepard) > > > >> > > > > 6. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Jim Karlock) > > > >> > > > > 7. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Michael Barnes) > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Message: 1 > > > >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:01:29 -0700 > > > >> > > > > From: Ben Koenig <[email protected]> > > > >> > > > > To: [email protected] > > > >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] IP tracking > > > >> > > > > Message-ID: <[email protected] > > > > > >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote: > > > >> > > > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great > > > >> > > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav > > > >> services for > > > >> > > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, > or > > > >> anything > > > >> > > > > > else than handles caldav... > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to > > which > > > >> > > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending > > ways > > > >> to get > > > >> > > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility > with > > > >> Android, > > > >> > > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless. > > > >> Tracking > > > >> > > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within > that > > > >> OS, so > > > >> > > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail > > > >> account. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd > > > >> defaults to > > > >> > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a > > fallback > > > >> > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is > > implemented > > > >> at > > > >> > > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP > > > >> tracking, you > > > >> > > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if > you > > > >> want to > > > >> > > > > actually get away from google's profile building. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and > > Ubuntu > > > >> > > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even > > Mozilla > > > >> links > > > >> > > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use > > for > > > >> > > tracking > > > >> > > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send > > data to > > > >> > > > > google servers.... > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Message: 2 > > > >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700 > > > >> > > > > From: John Jason Jordan <[email protected]> > > > >> > > > > To: [email protected] > > > >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless... > > > >> > > > > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333@Devil-Bonobo> > > > >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT) > > > >> > > > > Rich Shepard <[email protected]> dijo: > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no > > simple > > > >> > > > > >resolution. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > +1 > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Message: 3 > > > >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:06:58 -0700 > > > >> > > > > From: Denis Heidtmann <[email protected]> > > > >> > > > > To: "Portland Linux/Unix Group" <[email protected]> > > > >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM > > > >> > > > > Message-ID: > > > >> > > > > < > > > >> > > > > > > > >> caarut0iwxupfzf-e4g7wusuz4vampk+pt_pwrgnsaidxadu...@mail.gmail.com> > > > >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > FWIIW, PSU has done the same thing with the doors in SB1, > even > > > >> though > > > >> > > > there > > > >> > > > > is a business operating in that building. I once had to let > > in > > > >> one of > > > >> > > > > their customers. > > > >> > > > > -Denis > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:17 PM Russell Senior < > > > >> > > > [email protected]> > > > >> > > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I am a fan of Portland State as a venue. Firstly, we've > been > > > >> there > > > >> > > > > forever, > > > >> > > > > > b) their mission includes engaging with the community (not > > least > > > >> > > > because > > > >> > > > > > it's a service to their students); and iii) it's got a > good > > > >> central > > > >> > > > > > location with good transportation options. I suggest we > > picket > > > >> the > > > >> > > PSU > > > >> > > > > > administration building; second I suggest we investigate > > > >> whether a > > > >> > > room > > > >> > > > > in > > > >> > > > > > a different building might work. I recall we were in Smith > > for > > > >> quite > > > >> > > a > > > >> > > > > > while before moving to the Engineering building. > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 4:27 PM Vince Winter < > > > >> > > > [email protected]> > > > >> > > > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hey, > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I can try to convince free geek to host on Sundays > during > > the > > > >> day > > > >> > > > > > 11am-5pm > > > >> > > > > > > area? They maybe open to that. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Have you tried reaching out to the campus security to > see > > if > > > >> they > > > >> > > > would > > > >> > > > > > be > > > >> > > > > > > open to having someone help with door between 645 to > 715? > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 4:53 PM Michael Dexter < > > > >> [email protected]> > > > >> > > > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hello all, > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thank you everyone who pointed out a few odd elements > > about > > > >> the > > > >> > > > last > > > >> > > > > > > > meeting, none of which were the fact that I was not > > there. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 1. The room change was temporary. Whew! > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 2. Thanks to the homeless abusing PSU resources, the > > > >> engineering > > > >> > > > > > > > building will be locking its doors at 5:30PM starting > > next > > > >> month. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > This is sounds minor but the "answer" is to have > > someone at > > > >> the > > > >> > > > door > > > >> > > > > > who > > > >> > > > > > > > can identify PLUG attendees (not necessarily easy) and > > not > > > >> allow > > > >> > > in > > > >> > > > > > > > anyone who should not enter (also not easy). This door > > guard > > > >> > > would > > > >> > > > > also > > > >> > > > > > > > ideally hang around for 15 or so minutes to > accommodate > > late > > > >> > > > > arrivals. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I personally do not want PLUG members to be in the > > campus > > > >> > > security > > > >> > > > > > > > business given that it could incur liability should > they > > > >> fail to > > > >> > > > > comply > > > >> > > > > > > > with the school's security policies they are expected > to > > > >> enforce. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > PLUG has been at PSU for over 20 years and venues of > > this > > > >> quality > > > >> > > > do > > > >> > > > > > not > > > >> > > > > > > > come easily. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Please share your ideas on how we can work around this > > new > > > >> > > > > restriction! > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Please also share your ideas on venues should a > > solution not > > > >> > > > present > > > >> > > > > > > > itself. The ideal venue, like PSU: > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > * Is central with good public transportation access > > > >> > > > > > > > * Is free of charge > > > >> > > > > > > > * Is not dependent on a staff attendant unless they > are > > > >> > > guaranteed > > > >> > > > to > > > >> > > > > > be > > > >> > > > > > > > there for other reasons > > > >> > > > > > > > * Has good lighting > > > >> > > > > > > > * Has a good projector > > > >> > > > > > > > * Has affordable, safe parking for those who cannot > take > > > >> public > > > >> > > > > > > > transportation > > > >> > > > > > > > * Has good WiFI and optional Ethernet Internet access > > > >> > > > > > > > * Has good food options on site or nearby > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Free Geek is a highly-sympathetic venue but does not > > meet > > > >> all of > > > >> > > > > these > > > >> > > > > > > > criteria. > > > >> > > > > Actually it is a very simple, two tiered, problem: > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > 1. Cost of housing is ONLY in areas with severe restrictions > > on > > > >> > > building > > > >> > > > > on unused land. In Oregon & Washington it is Urban Grown > > > >> > > > > Boundaries. They have doubled cost of rents/ housing. Simple > > > >> economics > > > >> > > - > > > >> > > > > they create a shortage of land, which drives up the > > > >> > > > > price. In Portland's low income are, Lents, a parcel > recently > > > >> sold for > > > >> > > > ONE > > > >> > > > > MILLION/ acra which is about $125,000 for a 5000 sf empty > > > >> > > > > lot. Portland adds at lease $50,000 to that for permission > to > > > >> build. > > > >> > > When > > > >> > > > > you start with almost $200,000 in cost BEFORE building > > anything, > > > >> > > > > you cannot build affordable houses. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Yes but also Oregon & Texas are the only 2 states that don't > > have > > > >> > > > "Inclusionary Housing" laws that require developers to build a > > > >> certain > > > >> > > > number of affordable / low income units. More info here, > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2015/04/after_years_of_trying_inclusio.html > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > 2. People who simply cannot afford rent, end up living with > > > >> friends, > > > >> > > > > sharing an apartment, living in a camper or moving to > another > > > >> area. > > > >> > > There > > > >> > > > > are many successful services for this group. They generally > do > > > >> not end > > > >> > > up > > > >> > > > > in tests surrounded by needles. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Yes, "generally" as far as generalizations go. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > 3. Tent people are about 50-80% drug/alcohol addicts, some > > mentally > > > >> ill > > > >> > > > > that probably should be in institutions, and criminals who > no > > one > > > >> > > > > will rent to. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > I've heard a variety of life stories and personally know a lot > > > >> people > > > >> > > from > > > >> > > > all walks of life. We also have housed & employed drug > addicts, > > > >> > > alcoholics, > > > >> > > > criminals and sociopaths. One of who resides in the grandest > > house > > > >> of all > > > >> > > > at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > These aspects of human experience aren't the exclusive domain > > of the > > > >> > > > homeless. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > You may have noted an increase in people doing absolutely > > crazy > > > >> things > > > >> > > > > described as a mental health crisis - mostly illegal drug > use. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > View Seattle is Dying on YouTube for one viewpoint on the > > problem. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > I've seen it, wasn't impressed by nor did I agree wit it > > because > > > >> it > > > >> > > > doesn't address the root cause of alcohol, drug, tobacco and > > other > > > >> > > > addictions. Most often addiction is the result of trauma, > abuse, > > > >> social > > > >> > > > disconnection in which their basic human needs aren't being > met > > and > > > >> > > mental > > > >> > > > illness such as depression in which people are simply seeking > a > > > >> respite > > > >> > > > from their own suffering not unlike many housed people do when > > they > > > >> drink > > > >> > > > and adult beverage, partake of the herb or otherwise > > > >> entertain/distract > > > >> > > > themselves in the privacy of their own home. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > > > PLUG mailing list > > > >> > > > [email protected] > > > >> > > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > > PLUG mailing list > > > >> > > [email protected] > > > >> > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > >> > > > > > >> >_______________________________________________ > > > >> >PLUG mailing list > > > >> >[email protected] > > > >> >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> PLUG mailing list > > > >> [email protected] > > > >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > >> > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >PLUG mailing list > > >[email protected] > > >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list [email protected] http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
