Hi,

Unfortunately, this didn't fix the problem.  BTW, this is for an HP
dv9000 laptop with a dual core, 2.1 Ghz  Turion, MCP65 chipset and 4GB
main memory.  I'm using the 32-bit kernel since the driver I'm using
for my broadcom wifi doesn't work in 64-bits.  Immediately after the
suspend message, there's a truncated log message from [ID 540533
kern.notice].  Suspend/resume used to work on nv99 and broke sometime
later.  I'm running nv102 with the most recent BFU applied.  I've
included scanpci and prtconf info below.  The audiohd, nge and bcmndis
drivers I'm using all have suspend/resume support that worked under
nv99 (bcmndis and nge have been modified by me and audiohd is a
prerelease version).  Just to be sure, I disabled all 3 drivers and
suspend/resume still didn't work.  Fastboot works with all drivers
except sdcard, which currently lacks queisce support.

George

System Configuration:  Sun Microsystems  i86pc
Memory size: 4095 Megabytes
System Peripherals (Software Nodes):

i86pc (driver name: rootnex)
    scsi_vhci, instance #0 (driver name: scsi_vhci)
    isa, instance #0 (driver name: isa)
        i8042, instance #0 (driver name: i8042)
            keyboard, instance #0 (driver name: kb8042)
            mouse, instance #0 (driver name: mouse8042)
        motherboard
        pit_beep, instance #0 (driver name: pit_beep)
    pci, instance #0 (driver name: npe)
        pci103c,30cf
        pci103c,30cf
        pci103c,30cf
        pci103c,30cf
        pci103c,30cf, instance #0 (driver name: ohci)
            device, instance #1 (driver name: usb_mid)
        pci103c,30cf, instance #0 (driver name: ehci)
            miscellaneous, instance #2 (driver name: usb_mid)
                video, instance #0 (driver name: usbvc)
        pci103c,30cf, instance #0 (driver name: nge)
        pci103c,30cf, instance #0 (driver name: audiohd)
        pci10de,449, instance #0 (driver name: pci_pci)
            pci103c,30cf, instance #0 (driver name: hci1394)
            pci103c,30cf, instance #0 (driver name: sdhost)
            pci103c,30cf
            pci103c,30cf
            pci103c,30cf
        pci-ide, instance #0 (driver name: pci-ide)
            ide, instance #0 (driver name: ata)
                sd, instance #0 (driver name: sd)
            ide (driver name: ata)
        pci-ide, instance #1 (driver name: pci-ide)
            ide, instance #2 (driver name: ata)
                cmdk, instance #0 (driver name: cmdk)
            ide (driver name: ata)
        pci10de,45b (driver name: pcie_pci)
        pci10de,45a, instance #1 (driver name: pcie_pci)
            pci103c,1366, instance #0 (driver name: bcmndis)
        pci10de,458, instance #2 (driver name: pcie_pci)
            display, instance #0 (driver name: nvidia)
        pci10de,459 (driver name: pcie_pci)
        pci1022,1100, instance #0 (driver name: mc-amd)
        pci1022,1101, instance #1 (driver name: mc-amd)
        pci1022,1102, instance #2 (driver name: mc-amd)
        pci1022,1103, instance #0 (driver name: amd64_gart)
    iscsi, instance #0 (driver name: iscsi)
    pseudo, instance #0 (driver name: pseudo)
    options, instance #0 (driver name: options)
    agpgart, instance #0 (driver name: agpgart)
    xsvc, instance #0 (driver name: xsvc)
    used-resources
    cpus, instance #0 (driver name: cpunex)
        cpu, instance #0 (driver name: cpudrv)
        cpu, instance #1 (driver name: cpudrv)

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x00 function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0444
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 Memory Controller
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x00b0  COMMAND 0x0006
  CLASS     0x05 0x00 0x00  REVISION 0xa3
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x00  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BYTE_0    0x3c  BYTE_1  0x10  BYTE_2  0xcf  BYTE_3  0x30

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x01 function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0442
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 LPC Bridge
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x20a0  COMMAND 0x000f
  CLASS     0x06 0x01 0x00  REVISION 0xa3
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BASE0     0x00001d01  addr 0x00001d00  I/O
  BYTE_0    0x3c  BYTE_1  0x10  BYTE_2  0xcf  BYTE_3  0x30

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x01 function 0x01: vendor 0x10de device 0x0446
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 SMBus
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x00b0  COMMAND 0x0001
  CLASS     0x0c 0x05 0x00  REVISION 0xa1
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BASE0     0x00003081  addr 0x00003080  I/O
  BASE4     0x00003041  addr 0x00003040  I/O
  BASE5     0x00003001  addr 0x00003000  I/O
  MAX_LAT   0x00  MIN_GNT 0x00  INT_PIN 0x01  INT_LINE 0x0a
  BYTE_0    0x3c  BYTE_1  0x10  BYTE_2  0xcf  BYTE_3  0x30

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x01 function 0x03: vendor 0x10de device 0x0447
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 SMU
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x00a0  COMMAND 0x0006
  CLASS     0x0b 0x40 0x00  REVISION 0xa1
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BASE0     0xb0080000  addr 0xb0080000  MEM
  MAX_LAT   0x01  MIN_GNT 0x03  INT_PIN 0x02  INT_LINE 0xff
  BYTE_0    0x3c  BYTE_1  0x10  BYTE_2  0xcf  BYTE_3  0x30

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x02 function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0454
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 USB Controller
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x00b0  COMMAND 0x0007
  CLASS     0x0c 0x03 0x10  REVISION 0xa3
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BASE0     0xb0006000  addr 0xb0006000  MEM
  MAX_LAT   0x01  MIN_GNT 0x03  INT_PIN 0x01  INT_LINE 0x0b
  BYTE_0    0x3c  BYTE_1  0x10  BYTE_2  0xcf  BYTE_3  0x30

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x02 function 0x01: vendor 0x10de device 0x0455
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 USB Controller
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x00b0  COMMAND 0x0006
  CLASS     0x0c 0x03 0x20  REVISION 0xa3
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BASE0     0xb0007000  addr 0xb0007000  MEM
  MAX_LAT   0x01  MIN_GNT 0x03  INT_PIN 0x02  INT_LINE 0x07
  BYTE_0    0x3c  BYTE_1  0x10  BYTE_2  0xcf  BYTE_3  0x30

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x06 function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0450
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 Ethernet
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x00b0  COMMAND 0x0007
  CLASS     0x02 0x00 0x00  REVISION 0xa3
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x00  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BASE0     0xb0008000  addr 0xb0008000  MEM
  BASE1     0x000030e1  addr 0x000030e0  I/O
  MAX_LAT   0x14  MIN_GNT 0x01  INT_PIN 0x01  INT_LINE 0x0a
  BYTE_0    0x3c  BYTE_1  0x10  BYTE_2  0xcf  BYTE_3  0x30

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x07 function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x044a
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 High Definition Audio
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x00b0  COMMAND 0x0006
  CLASS     0x04 0x03 0x00  REVISION 0xa1
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BASE0     0xb0000000  addr 0xb0000000  MEM
  MAX_LAT   0x05  MIN_GNT 0x02  INT_PIN 0x02  INT_LINE 0x0b
  BYTE_0    0x3c  BYTE_1  0x10  BYTE_2  0xcf  BYTE_3  0x30

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x08 function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0449
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 PCI bridge
  STATUS    0x00b0  COMMAND 0x0147
  CLASS     0x06 0x04 0x01  REVISION 0xa1
  HEADER    0x01  LATENCY 0x00
  PRIBUS    0x00  SECBUS 0x07  SUBBUS 0x07
  SECLT     0x40  SECSTATUS 0x2280
  IOBASE    0xf000  IOLIM 0x0fff
  NOPREFETCH_MEMBASE 0xb0100000  MEMLIM 0xb01fffff
  PREFETCH_MEMBASE   0xfff00000  MEMLIM 0x000fffff
  NO_FAST_B2B NO_SEC_BUS_RST NO_M_ABRT NO_VGA_EN ISA_EN SERR_EN PERR_EN

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x09 function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0448
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 IDE
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x00b0  COMMAND 0x0005
  CLASS     0x01 0x01 0x8a  REVISION 0xa1
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x00  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BASE4     0x000030c1  addr 0x000030c0  I/O
  MAX_LAT   0x01  MIN_GNT 0x03  INT_PIN 0x00  INT_LINE 0x00
  BYTE_0    0x3c  BYTE_1  0x10  BYTE_2  0xcf  BYTE_3  0x30

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x0a function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x045d
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 SATA Controller
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x00b0  COMMAND 0x0007
  CLASS     0x01 0x01 0x85  REVISION 0xa3
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BASE0     0x000030f9  addr 0x000030f8  I/O
  BASE1     0x000030ed  addr 0x000030ec  I/O
  BASE2     0x000030f1  addr 0x000030f0  I/O
  BASE3     0x000030e9  addr 0x000030e8  I/O
  BASE4     0x000030d1  addr 0x000030d0  I/O
  BASE5     0xb0004000  addr 0xb0004000  MEM
  MAX_LAT   0x01  MIN_GNT 0x03  INT_PIN 0x01  INT_LINE 0x05
  BYTE_0    0x3c  BYTE_1  0x10  BYTE_2  0xcf  BYTE_3  0x30

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x0b function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x045b
 nVidia Corporation  Device unknown
  STATUS    0x0010  COMMAND 0x0107
  CLASS     0x06 0x04 0x00  REVISION 0xa1
  HEADER    0x01  LATENCY 0x00
  PRIBUS    0x00  SECBUS 0x01  SUBBUS 0x01
  SECLT     0x00  SECSTATUS 0x0000
  IOBASE    0x00002000  IOLIM 0x00002fff
  NOPREFETCH_MEMBASE 0xfff00000  MEMLIM 0x000fffff
  PREFETCH_MEMBASE   0x00000000fff00000  MEMLIM 0x00000000000fffff
  NO_FAST_B2B NO_SEC_BUS_RST NO_M_ABRT NO_VGA_EN ISA_EN NO_SERR_EN NO_PERR_EN

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x0c function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x045a
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 PCI Express bridge
  STATUS    0x0010  COMMAND 0x0047
  CLASS     0x06 0x04 0x00  REVISION 0xa1
  HEADER    0x01  LATENCY 0x00
  PRIBUS    0x00  SECBUS 0x03  SUBBUS 0x03
  SECLT     0x00  SECSTATUS 0x2000
  IOBASE    0x00006000  IOLIM 0x00006fff
  NOPREFETCH_MEMBASE 0xb0200000  MEMLIM 0xb02fffff
  PREFETCH_MEMBASE   0x00000000b6000000  MEMLIM 0x00000000b60fffff
  NO_FAST_B2B NO_SEC_BUS_RST NO_M_ABRT NO_VGA_EN ISA_EN SERR_EN PERR_EN

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x0d function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0458
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 PCI Express bridge
  STATUS    0x0010  COMMAND 0x0047
  CLASS     0x06 0x04 0x00  REVISION 0xa1
  HEADER    0x01  LATENCY 0x00
  PRIBUS    0x00  SECBUS 0x05  SUBBUS 0x05
  SECLT     0x00  SECSTATUS 0x2000
  IOBASE    0x00004000  IOLIM 0x00004fff
  NOPREFETCH_MEMBASE 0xb1000000  MEMLIM 0xb3ffffff
  PREFETCH_MEMBASE   0x00000000c0000000  MEMLIM 0x00000000cfffffff
  NO_FAST_B2B NO_SEC_BUS_RST NO_M_ABRT VGA_EN ISA_EN SERR_EN PERR_EN

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x0e function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0459
 nVidia Corporation MCP65 PCI Express bridge
  STATUS    0x0010  COMMAND 0x0107
  CLASS     0x06 0x04 0x00  REVISION 0xa1
  HEADER    0x01  LATENCY 0x00
  PRIBUS    0x00  SECBUS 0x09  SUBBUS 0x09
  SECLT     0x00  SECSTATUS 0x0000
  IOBASE    0x00005000  IOLIM 0x00005fff
  NOPREFETCH_MEMBASE 0xb4000000  MEMLIM 0xb5ffffff
  PREFETCH_MEMBASE   0x00000000d0000000  MEMLIM 0x00000000d01fffff
  NO_FAST_B2B NO_SEC_BUS_RST NO_M_ABRT NO_VGA_EN ISA_EN NO_SERR_EN NO_PERR_EN

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x18 function 0x00: vendor 0x1022 device 0x1100
 Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology 
Configuration
  STATUS    0x0010  COMMAND 0x0000
  CLASS     0x06 0x00 0x00  REVISION 0x00
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BYTE_0    0x01  BYTE_1  0x01  BYTE_2  0x01  BYTE_3  0x00

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x18 function 0x01: vendor 0x1022 device 0x1101
 Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map
  STATUS    0x0000  COMMAND 0x0000
  CLASS     0x06 0x00 0x00  REVISION 0x00
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BYTE_0    0x03  BYTE_1  0x00  BYTE_2  0x00  BYTE_3  0x00

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x18 function 0x02: vendor 0x1022 device 0x1102
 Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller
  STATUS    0x0000  COMMAND 0x0000
  CLASS     0x06 0x00 0x00  REVISION 0x00
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BYTE_0    0x01  BYTE_1  0x00  BYTE_2  0x00  BYTE_3  0x00

pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x18 function 0x03: vendor 0x1022 device 0x1103
 Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control
  STATUS    0x0010  COMMAND 0x0000
  CLASS     0x06 0x00 0x00  REVISION 0x00
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BYTE_0    0xff  BYTE_1  0x1b  BYTE_2  0x04  BYTE_3  0x00

pci bus 0x0003 cardnum 0x00 function 0x00: vendor 0x14e4 device 0x4328
 Broadcom Corporation BCM4328 802.11a/b/g/n
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x1366 (Hewlett-Packard Company BCM4321 802.11a/b/g/n 
Wireless LAN Controller)
  STATUS    0x0010  COMMAND 0x0006
  CLASS     0x02 0x80 0x00  REVISION 0x03
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x00  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x10
  BASE0     0x00000000b0200004  addr 0x00000000b0200000  MEM 64BIT
  BASE2     0x00000000b600000c  addr 0x00000000b6000000  MEM PREFETCHABLE 64BIT
  MAX_LAT   0x00  MIN_GNT 0x00  INT_PIN 0x01  INT_LINE 0x0b
  BYTE_0    0x01  BYTE_1  0x58  BYTE_2  0x02  BYTE_3  0x06

pci bus 0x0005 cardnum 0x00 function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0427
 nVidia Corporation GeForce 8400M GS
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x0010  COMMAND 0x0047
  CLASS     0x03 0x00 0x00  REVISION 0xa1
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x00  LATENCY 0x00  CACHE 0x00
  BASE0     0xb1000000  addr 0xb1000000  MEM
  BASE1     0x00000000c000000c  addr 0x00000000c0000000  MEM PREFETCHABLE 64BIT
  BASE3     0x00000000b2000004  addr 0x00000000b2000000  MEM 64BIT
  BASE5     0x00004001  addr 0x00004000  I/O
  MAX_LAT   0x00  MIN_GNT 0x00  INT_PIN 0x01  INT_LINE 0x0f
  BYTE_0    0x3c  BYTE_1  0x10  BYTE_2  0xcf  BYTE_3  0x30

pci bus 0x0007 cardnum 0x05 function 0x00: vendor 0x1180 device 0x0832
 Ricoh Co Ltd R5C832 IEEE 1394 Controller
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x0210  COMMAND 0x0006
  CLASS     0x0c 0x00 0x10  REVISION 0x05
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x40  CACHE 0x10
  BASE0     0xb0100000  addr 0xb0100000  MEM
  MAX_LAT   0x04  MIN_GNT 0x02  INT_PIN 0x01  INT_LINE 0x0f

pci bus 0x0007 cardnum 0x05 function 0x01: vendor 0x1180 device 0x0822
 Ricoh Co Ltd R5C822 SD/SDIO/MMC/MS/MSPro Host Adapter
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x0210  COMMAND 0x0006
  CLASS     0x08 0x05 0x00  REVISION 0x22
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x40  CACHE 0x10
  BASE0     0xb0100800  addr 0xb0100800  MEM
  MAX_LAT   0x00  MIN_GNT 0x00  INT_PIN 0x02  INT_LINE 0x0a

pci bus 0x0007 cardnum 0x05 function 0x02: vendor 0x1180 device 0x0843
 Ricoh Co Ltd R5C843 MMC Host Controller
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x0210  COMMAND 0x0106
  CLASS     0x08 0x80 0x00  REVISION 0x12
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x40  CACHE 0x10
  BASE0     0xb0100c00  addr 0xb0100c00  MEM
  MAX_LAT   0x00  MIN_GNT 0x00  INT_PIN 0x02  INT_LINE 0x0a

pci bus 0x0007 cardnum 0x05 function 0x03: vendor 0x1180 device 0x0592
 Ricoh Co Ltd R5C592 Memory Stick Bus Host Adapter
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x0210  COMMAND 0x0106
  CLASS     0x08 0x80 0x00  REVISION 0x12
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x40  CACHE 0x10
  BASE0     0xb0101000  addr 0xb0101000  MEM
  MAX_LAT   0x00  MIN_GNT 0x00  INT_PIN 0x02  INT_LINE 0x0a
  BYTE_0    0x00  BYTE_1  0x00  BYTE_2  0x02  BYTE_3  0x00

pci bus 0x0007 cardnum 0x05 function 0x04: vendor 0x1180 device 0x0852
 Ricoh Co Ltd xD-Picture Card Controller
 CardVendor 0x103c card 0x30cf (Hewlett-Packard Company, Card unknown)
  STATUS    0x0210  COMMAND 0x0106
  CLASS     0x08 0x80 0x00  REVISION 0x12
  BIST      0x00  HEADER 0x80  LATENCY 0x40  CACHE 0x10
  BASE0     0xb0101400  addr 0xb0101400  MEM
  MAX_LAT   0x00  MIN_GNT 0x00  INT_PIN 0x02  INT_LINE 0x0a
  BYTE_0    0x00  BYTE_1  0x00  BYTE_2  0x02  BYTE_3  0x00

George
>
>  This might be related to:
>
>    http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=4603
>
>Try the driver in the attachment for that bug and let us know if it 
>solves the problem or not.
>
>       ---- Randy
>
>On Wed, 19 Nov 2008, george white wrote:
>
>> I had suspend/resume working in nv99.  It seems to have broken in nv102 and 
in the most
>> recent BFU.  Suspend works, but resume hangs with a blinking cursor in the 
upper left of
>> the display.   There are no messages in the log.  I tried disabling all my 
network drivers and
>> the sdcard driver, and tried it from a command line prompt and it still 
failed.
>> 
>> I have noticed a lot of apci related noise on boot, including an APCI 
exception.  However,
>> this noise was still present in the nv99 version.  The messsage is:
>> 
>> Nov 19 20:20:32 laptop acpica: [ID 608139 kern.notice] ACPI Error 
(dsopcode-0714
>> ): Field [I9MN] at 544 exceeds Buffer [IORT] size 464 (bits) [20080829]
>> Nov 19 20:20:32 laptop acpica: [ID 100000 kern.notice] 
>> Nov 19 20:20:32 laptop acpica: [ID 815237 kern.notice] **** Exception 
AE_AML_BUF
>> FER_LIMIT during execution of method [\_SB_.PCI0.LPC0.PMIO._CRS] (Node 
cba2c4fc)
>> Nov 19 20:20:32 laptop acpica: [ID 100000 kern.notice] 
>> Nov 19 20:20:32 laptop acpica: [ID 652514 kern.notice] Method Execution 
Stack:
>> Nov 19
>> -- 
>> This message posted from opensolaris.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> pm-discuss mailing list
>> pm-discuss at opensolaris.org
>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/pm-discuss
>> 


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