Okay... let's modify the conditions a little... I am currently in France, much the same condition as Hank, but I DO intend to reside here permanently. I DO NOT intend to become a French citizen. How does that effect your argument against Hank? Mostly, I'm just curious, because I really haven't been following the thread of this argument... however, I noticed the point you made. I am curious what your point is.
John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hank, you try mixing up fact and fiction, but I think you can mix up only the uninformed reader. Did you WANT to become permanent in France? I thionk not. So you were a temporary visitor WITH all legalities necessary to be admitted to France. Documented. The word "Influx" is a cop-out. They SNEAK in. I agree with you in not liking an "iron courtain" around the US. Those insneaking - and only the Latinos - destroy the 'national' habitat they 'flux' into, change the language, depress the wages and therefore they are favored by the Hi-Finance powers (like GWB) who reap the profit of that. Frankly, my friend, I am perplexrd to see you (ostentatively leftist) to fight for the Big Money's interest. One side of this double image is fake. Or you have poor comprehension of the question. I never heard that Chinese, Indian. Polish, or Russian immigrants demanded language priviledges in this English speaking country. The only country where it works fine is Switzerland, everybody speaks several languages, not only Spanish. And I congratulate you for being the son of (legal of course) immigrants. I was admitted in 1970. Became citizen 5 years later, because I wanted to live here. Pay taxes from day 1, even earlier, I was here on a Sabbatical and had some income on the side and paid the taxes. That was the law of this country. (It was beneficial in calculating my Social Security 'years' at retirement). And a bad word: I considered myself quite "natural" even before I became "naturalized". Natural and legal. Citizen. You asked, I replied. Any more questions? John ----- Original Message ----- From: adar To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [PNEWS-L] Immigrant's Impact on the Economy - both documented and undocumented Can I call them influxes? I am the son of immigrants. How about residents since they now live here. Documentation could be a driver's license, but why would they have to become naturalized? Why must one choose? When I lived in France for three years I had an international drivers license and was not a citizen of France and had no intentions of becoming one although if my son had lived who was born there he would have been automatically a French citizen (and an American citizen). Hank On Sun, 29 Jul 2007, John wrote: > HANK: > and please, refrain from using "imigrants" for 'undocumented' > insneakers, call them illegal or not. An immigrant joins the country > inder the lawful terms of the country. Those "immigrants" you refer to > are the 'legal', documented influx of people according to the country's > decision in number and origin, do we agree with those conditions, or > not. Those times of the 16th - 18th c are over when vast territories > were available as free loot from the Indians (just kill them off). John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: adar > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 12:19 PM > Subject: [PNEWS-L] Immigrant's Impact on the Economy - both documented and undocumented > > > > Please do not use the term "illegal" in lieu of undocumented. There is > nothing illegal about being a person and laws are themselves legislative > constructs and subject to interpretation and change. These are > undocumented but they are fully participatory in the economies in which > they live and work. > > AND they contribute to a nation's economy. The right-wing talking points > will lie and some here will repeat those lies. Rely on the facts. That, I > assume is why you came here. Anyone knowingly posting false information > here will be subject to being challenged by me and possibly moderation. > > Hank > > MMIGRANTS' IMPACT ON U.S. ECONOMY > > * Do undocumented immigrants in the United States really pay > taxes? If so, how many pay how much? Does that mean they're not a net > "drain" on the U.S. economy as we hear so often in the media? And why do > they pay, if they're scared to be found out by the federal government? > > ** A recently released report by the Executive Office of the > President's Council of Economic Advisers, "Immigration's Economic Impact" > (June 20, 2007) notes that, "On average, U.S. natives benefit from > immigration. Immigrants tend to complement (not substitute for) natives, > raising natives' productivity and income." The report also notes that > studies looking at the "long-run fiscal effects of immigration conclude > that it is likely to have a modest, positive influence." On the subject of > immigrants and taxes, the report points to projections of future taxes and > government spending observing that a National Research Council study > estimates that "immigrants and their descendants would contribute about > $80,000 more in taxes (1996 dollars) than they would receive in public > services." (Source cited: Smith and Edmonston). A study by the Urban > Institute says immigrants in New York State pay over $18 billion a year in > taxes, (over 15% of the total), and roughly proportional to their size in > the state's population. To read more on this issue, visit the Immigration > Forum Web site. > > Furthermore, the Cato Institute's economist, Steve Moore has noted that in > fact, immigrant households paid an estimated $133 billion in direct taxes > (federal, state and local) in 1997. > > Well they certainly pay sales taxes etc. Actually many > undocumented do pay taxes. It's a myth that undocumented only live on a > cash economy building decks and mowing lawns for cash. In fact some > organizations recommend that people here who are undocumented and have > used fake social security numbers keep paying taxes and keep records to > demonstrate good faith. Of course they cannot collect on some of the > benefits of those taxes such as social security. > > HR > > > > Progressive News/Views (since 1982) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
