the new deal saved America WW2 helped but it was the new deal that did it .
On Jan 13, 5:06 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote: > That isn;t what I said, mike. FDR's programs did not re-boot America > but Lend-Lease and WWII did by updating American manufacturing/ > production, providing jobs and jacking up expectations of consumers/ > returning G.I.'s who were eager to spend/nest. Sentimental lyrics > died, as a result- but that's another topic. Throwing money at the > present problem is not a bright idea- and I don't care if Krugman won > a Nobel Prize and advises differently. It's like enabling a prodigal > child. What has the first bailout accomplished? Really nothing. It > will get worse as China is feeling pinched. Not good. > > On Jan 13, 3:52 am, "florida mike !" <littlemike...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > " FDR accomplished little until WWII." > > you don't consider saving the country as doing very much ? > > On Jan 13, 4:14 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > FDR accomplished little until WWII. Afterall, I guess the mortgage > > > crisis started this recession and who bought these homes they couldn't > > > afford, racked up enormous credit debt to emulate celebrities (now, > > > they appear on Oprah or are scolded by Suzie Ormand)- the people who > > > voted for Obama to bail them out. > > > > On Jan 13, 2:11 am, "florida mike !" <littlemike...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > i think Obama just like Roosevelt will make this new deal work as well > > > > or better than the first one . i just hope he doesn't fall victim to > > > > the republican rhetoric and try to balance the budget to soon during > > > > the process . > > > > > On Jan 13, 12:30 am, frankg <fran...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > True, but the jobs are not sustainable. The Federal Government - the > > > > > most corrupt, ineffectual, wasteful and inept organization in the > > > > > history of mankind - to this you entrust nearly three quarters of a > > > > > billion dollars to 'create' jobs. That in itself makes this a bad > > > > > idea. But beyond that, those jobs are being bankrolled by the very > > > > > businesses that can provide sustainable employment if given a chance. > > > > > As government raises the tax burden on these businesses to fund its > > > > > operation, the ability of these businesses to fund their own payrolls > > > > > and invest in growth diminishes. And as these companies diminish, so > > > > > to does the funding the government relies on to run its operation. As > > > > > I said, eventually the battery will die. > > > > > > On Jan 12, 3:08 pm, "florida mike !" <littlemike...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > in this case the government will be creating jobs for americans by > > > > > > hiring contractors to rebuild our bridges and roads among other > > > > > > things . > > > > > > > On Jan 12, 10:51 am, frankg <fran...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > > > It's not mythbusting, it's simply presenting a different opinion. > > > > > > > > > This argument is based on the limited view that wealth is mainly > > > > > > > > generated by loaning or borrowing at interest - a common enough > > > > > > > > assumption among financial people over the past 30 years. A more > > > > > > > > progressive view is that real wealth is generated by labor, > > > > > > > > combined > > > > > > > > with access to resources required for production. Putting > > > > > > > > people to > > > > > > > > work creates wealth. > > > > > > > > Businesses have always invested their capital to create more > > > > > > > > capital. The best parts of Obama's proposal involve getting the > > > > > > > > government to do the same thing. Conservatives are resisting > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > because don't believe that there's such a thing as the common > > > > > > > > wealth > > > > > > > > The idea that government, by putting people to work, will infuse > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > economy is troubling because the government doesn't create > > > > > > > anything. A > > > > > > > business creates goods and services, and consumers spend money on > > > > > > > these goods and services. This generates capital, which can then > > > > > > > fund > > > > > > > jobs or be reinvested back into the business for growth. But > > > > > > > government doesn't do this. Government doesn't create it's own > > > > > > > capital. Government relies on business to fund it's operation, > > > > > > > and so > > > > > > > as it increases it's spending it must draw more capital from > > > > > > > business, > > > > > > > making it harder for business to reinvest or maintain a payroll. > > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > like suggesting we use a battery to drive a motor to turn a > > > > > > > generator > > > > > > > to create electricity to charge the battery. This doesn't work and > > > > > > > eventually the battery will die. > > > > > > > > On Jan 12, 9:42 am, "florida mike !" <littlemike...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Mythbusting the Obama Recovery Package > > > > > > > >http://www.truthout.org:80/011109E > > > > > > > > The self-serving myths about President-elect Barack Obama's > > > > > > > > economic > > > > > > > > recovery plan are starting to fly so thick and fast that we > > > > > > > > have been > > > > > > > > working full-time to keep ahead of them. Here's what you need > > > > > > > > to know > > > > > > > > to fire back. > > > > > > > > > Here it is: our moment of economic truth. We're standing at that > > > > > > > > historic fork in the road where the nation decides, now and for > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > foreseeable future, whether it's going to hang on to the > > > > > > > > catastrophic > > > > > > > > assumptions of the free-market fundamentalists and rely once > > > > > > > > more on > > > > > > > > the nostrums that have so far failed to fix the mess, or take a > > > > > > > > bold > > > > > > > > step down a new, more progressive path that will finally > > > > > > > > re-empower > > > > > > > > the American people to build an economy that works for us all. > > > > > > > > > As usual, the conservatives have absolutely no conscience about > > > > > > > > what they did to create this mess. If they did, they'd all be > > > > > > > > holed > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > in their gated communities or on their private islands, > > > > > > > > embarrassed > > > > > > > > into silence at best and terrified of peasant uprisings at > > > > > > > > worst. > > > > > > > > Instead, they're jetting into D.C. en masse in a last-ditch > > > > > > > > attempt > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > head the country off - or at least make sure that any money > > > > > > > > that does > > > > > > > > get spent ends up, as it always has, in their pockets. > > > > > > > > > To that end, the self-serving myths are starting to fly so thick > > > > > > > > and fast that the staff here at CAF has been working full-time > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > keep > > > > > > > > ahead of them. Here's some of what they're flinging in this > > > > > > > > latest > > > > > > > > B.S. storm - and what you need to know to fire back. > > > > > > > > > 1. The proposed recovery package is too big. > > > > > > > > > False. Most progressive economists agree (and Paul Krugman is > > > > > > > > downright emphatic) that it's going to take a minimum of a > > > > > > > > trillion > > > > > > > > dollars of well-placed investment to pull our economy out of > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > ditch. This is no time for half-measures, blue-ribbon > > > > > > > > committees, > > > > > > > > pilot projects, or trial balloons: this is a life-or-death > > > > > > > > crisis > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > requires immediate and massive intervention. > > > > > > > > > CAF Senior Fellow Bernie Horn puts it this way: "The American > > > > > > > > economy is huge and it's at a standstill. It's like a > > > > > > > > motionless 100- > > > > > > > > car freight train - or one going backwards slowly. A small > > > > > > > > locomotive > > > > > > > > simply can't pull it forward. We need an engine large enough to > > > > > > > > work, > > > > > > > > one that can create millions of jobs. If anything, a $775 > > > > > > > > billion 2- > > > > > > > > year plan may be too small rather than too big." > > > > > > > > > Dean Baker of the Center for Economic and Policy Research echoed > > > > > > > > this same thing on Rachel Maddow's show last Tuesday night. > > > > > > > > It's got > > > > > > > > to be big. And it's got to be now. Anything too small - or too > > > > > > > > late - > > > > > > > > and the American economy will be at serious risk of stagnating > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same way Japan's did in the 1990s. > > > > > > > > > 2. If we can't afford (insert pet project here), we certainly > > > > > > > > can't afford this. > > > > > > > > > Yes, we can. What we really can't afford is a huge recession > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > undercuts the tax base. That's a vicious cycle that will make it > > > > > > > > increasingly harder to dig out the longer this goes on. The > > > > > > > > Congressional Budget Office projects that the current slowdown > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > cost the federal government $166 billion in lost tax revenues > > > > > > > > in 2009 > > > > > > > > - a number that could easily get even larger in coming years if > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > fall into a real depression. If we get on that trendline, we > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > lose a trillion dollars in government revenues by the end of > > > > > > > > Obama's > > > > > > > > first term. We need to invest what we have while we still have > > > > > > > > it if > > > > > > > > we hope to have a strong economy going forward. > > > > > > > > > This argument is based on the limited view that wealth is mainly > > > > > > > > generated by loaning or borrowing at interest - a common enough > > > > > > > > assumption among financial people over the past 30 years. A more > > > > > > > > progressive view is that real wealth is generated by labor, > > > > > > > > combined > > > > > > > > with access to resources required for production. Putting > > > > > > > > people to > > > > > > > > work creates wealth. So does ensuring that our current failing > > > > > > > > energy > > > > > > > > regime is replaced as rapidly as possible with one that's > > > > > > > > infinitely > > > > > > > > renewable and that we will finally be in full control of. And > > > > > > > > so do > > > > > > > > other kinds of infrastructure investments, which form the > > > > > > > > footing on > > > > > > > > which a new round of businesses can rise and thrive. > > > > > > > > > Businesses have always invested their capital to create more > > > > > > > > capital. The best parts of Obama's proposal involve getting the > > > > > > > > government to do the same thing. Conservatives are resisting > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > because don't believe that there's such a thing as the common > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. 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