Keith you're a very unusal man and a very unusual Christian. I think you would have to agree that most Western Christians are of the opinion that their beliefs are the only "correct" ones and everyone else is screwed. Virtually all Western Christian churches (with the exception of UCC and Unity) teach this in absolute terms.
On Jun 29, 4:46 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > Fred, > > Hmmmmmm.......Good question.....Sort of...... > > I don't know that "judge" is the correct adjective, or at least the > adjective that I would utilize. Because I disagree with political > ideologies, or lifestyles does not necessarily mean that I have "judged" > them in one sense, but in another sense, I guess that could be correct. > > I believe in the Holy Trinity. This is the foundation of my Christianity, > and so in essence, my belief in Jesus Christ as my saviour is not totally > the key to eternal salvation. > > I don't so much subscribe to "my God" being superior than "their God"; or > that my Saviour is more superior than "their Prophet". I do have some > issues with Islam, which I have delved into numerous times, and believe that > Islam must reform as a whole; (and as Judaism and Christianity have reformed > on numerous occasions) before it can be taken as a legitimate religion in > Western Culture. > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Frederick The Moderate < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Keith: "One of our core beliefs is, "Judge Not, Lest Ye Be > > Judged"....." > > > So based on your statement above, Keith, you do not judge liberals? > > Gays? Muslims? > > You do not think that Christians will go to a better place than > > Muslims after dying? > > You do not believe that ONLY accepting Jesus as your lord and Saviour > > will get you into heaven? > > If all of the above are correct, you would be an unusual Christian (in > > the West, anyway). > > > I was going to attend Methodist Seminary (among the least "fire & > > brimstone" of the Christian Churches) after gaining my bachelors. The > > old saying is "No one ever comes out of seminary with the same beliefs > > they went in with". With me, that happened before I even got there. So > > instead, I went into business. > > > Rabbit, I served in the Office of Naval Intelligence during the > > presidency of the greatest Republican President of my lifetime - > > Ronald Reagan. > > > On Jun 29, 8:58 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Frederick The Moderate < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > - Nowadays, this means that 99.9% of everything God creates, will be > > kept > > > alive forever, for the purpose of crueltym because they are not just > > like > > > "Christians". > > > > - Jesus did not want this new brand of Judiasm rammed down people's > > > throats but rather, growth similar to that of Buddhism - based solely > > on > > > attraction. > > > > - There is much more about Western Christian churches with which I > > > dissent. I respect people right to believe as they wish so I won't try > > to > > > tell you or anyone else that you're following the "wrong path" because > > it is > > > simply not for me to judge. Which is another difference between me and > > > traditional Christians. > > > > ============ > > > > Obviously, the seminary that you attended must not have been founded in > > > Catholicism, nor could it have been based on any of the numerous > > Protestant > > > denominations. Your post also makes me wonder when the last time it was, > > > that you might have strolled into a Catholic or Protestant Church? One > > of > > > our core beliefs is, "Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged"..... > > > > > On Jun 29, 5:45 am, "Mrs. Rabbit" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Ok, I know I'll be sorry, but please do tell what Jesus *really* > > > > > thought. :D > > > > > > Seminary? Really now? > > > > > At one time, I thought about becoming a pastor. So I got my degree in > > > > theology (you need a Masters in Divinity to be ordained by most > > > > churches). The focus of my studies was ancient Hebrew & Aramaic > > > > customs and idioms. > > > > > So what Jesus really taught? Just my opinion but there is MUCH to back > > > > it up. And it wasn't everything I believe, just a few points that were > > > > in direct contrast with most (Western) Christian churches that seem to > > > > ignore well, a LOT. > > > > 1. Jesus did not come to start a new religion. He came to open the > > > > Jewish belief in only one God, up to everyone else. > > > > 2. The Jews had forgotten God's message and turned religion into > > > > exactly what Travis and Richard talk about it being nowadays: a venue > > > > of exclusivity, arrogance and politics. Jesus' message was for the > > > > Jews to quit being "holier than thou", stop judging others and just do > > > > their best to live their own lives as spiritually as possible. > > > > Nowadays, this means that 99.9% of everything God creates, will be > > > > kept alive forever, for the purpose of crueltym because they are not > > > > just like "Christians". Swell. Wrong though. > > > > 3. Jesus did his best to make it clear: Whomever you would be quickest > > > > to judge (Samaritans, women, gays, Muslims etc) should be the person > > > > you make it your quest to learn to appreciate and if possible, even > > > > love. Later that came to mean Hate & Judge eveyone who isn't part of > > > > the Jesus Club. > > > > 4. Modern Christians are exactly like the Sadduccess and Pharisees > > > > (the good ol' folks who crucified him) of Jesus' day. Very political > > > > and self-righteous. Self-appointed to determine which parts of the > > > > Bible should be taken literally, which should be interpreted and how, > > > > and why you are going straight to hell if you disagree with them on > > > > any of this. > > > > 5. There is no Satan or Hell. > > > > 6. Revelation was just another piece of coded Apocrypha describing the > > > > current events of the times just after the crucifixion. > > > > 7. Jesus did not want this new brand of Judiasm rammed down people's > > > > throats but rather, growth similar to that of Buddhism - based solely > > > > on attraction. > > > > > There is much more about Western Christian churches with which I > > > > dissent. I respect people right to believe as they wish so I won't try > > > > to tell you or anyone else that you're following the "wrong path" > > > > because it is simply not for me to judge. Which is another difference > > > > between me and traditional Christians. They want to tell others all > > > > about their brand of religion without ever listening with an open mind > > > > or respecting somenone else's. > > > > All that being said, The Bible and especially the teachings of Jesus > > > > are my spiritual guide and way. > > > > > > On Jun 29, 1:00 am, Frederick The Moderate > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I was almost banned from seminary for my radical beliefs about > > > > > > Christianity and what Jesus really taught. Didn't matter. By the > > time > > > > > > I got my bachelor's, I'd decided that I loved learning the origins > > and > > > > > > histories of various religions but no longer subscribed to the > > > > > > exclusivity most believed in. > > > > > > I have a poster from my (soon to be published!) book, I made which > > > > > > kinda parodies those types of beliefs. I'll send it to the group > > with > > > > > > the hopes it doesn't offend as many people at "The Right to bear > > Arms" > > > > > > did. > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 9:49 pm, Perplexed <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I agree completely Richard. I'm one of those "spiritual but not > > > > > > > religious" folks, closer to Buddhism than Christianity in my > > beliefs. > > > > > > > But I detest what organized religion has done to religion. > > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 8:50 pm, RichardForbes <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am not agnostic, but I sure am agnostic about attending > > church. > > > > I > > > > > > > > learned the necessary lessons lon ago and have no use for being > > > > > > > > preached to or sold a bill of goods. Most religious leaders > > are on > > > > a > > > > > > > > level with used car salesmen and politicians. > > > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 2:55 pm, studio <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 12:53 am, Frederick The Moderate > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Someone posted that there is some pretty extreme prejudice > > and > > > > hatred > > > > > > > > > > here. True? Not True? What are your thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > You found one of them already. > > > > > > > > > > But to address your question; > > > > > > > > > "What do you think of Islam"? > > > > > > > > > > I'm rather neutral in my assessment of Islam, much the way I > > am > > > > with > > > > > > > > > any other religion, > > > > > > > > > except when they start preaching it to me, or corner > > me...then I > > > > let > > > > > > > > > 'em have it. > > > > > > > > > > I had a Muslim Arab girlfriend at one point, and a couple > > > > > > > > > acquaintances, so I know the pros and cons. > > > > > > > > > There are good people from all walks of life regardless > > > > what-where- > > > > > > > > > when-how they come > > > > > > > > > by it, I don't concentrate on the bad so much unless it > > actually > > > > needs > > > > > > > > > redress. > > > > > > > > > Of course there are the bad apples also, but Islam has no > > > > exclusive > > > > > > > > > rights to bad teachings. > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I'm agnostic, but I don't make a point of > > preaching > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > Let sleeping dogs lay so to speak. > > > > > > > > > If someone believes in a God, fine. > > > > > > > > > But don't be laying your God in my lap...as if you could > > anyway.- > > > > Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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