Islam believes in conversion when it says that let's convert non-believers into believers. The expansion of Islam and its mode of expansion are fine example of the fact.
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:53 AM, dick thompson <[email protected]>wrote: > Islam does the same. In fact if you were ever a Muslim, you are > considered an apostate if you ever leave the faith and should be killed. > The Christian believers don't do that. > > > Frederick The Moderate wrote: > > Keith you're a very unusal man and a very unusual Christian. > I think you would have to agree that most Western Christians are of > the opinion that their beliefs are the only "correct" ones and > everyone else is screwed. Virtually all Western Christian churches > (with the exception of UCC and Unity) teach this in absolute terms. > > On Jun 29, 4:46 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Fred, > > Hmmmmmm.......Good question.....Sort of...... > > I don't know that "judge" is the correct adjective, or at least the > adjective that I would utilize. Because I disagree with political > ideologies, or lifestyles does not necessarily mean that I have "judged" > them in one sense, but in another sense, I guess that could be correct. > > I believe in the Holy Trinity. This is the foundation of my Christianity, > and so in essence, my belief in Jesus Christ as my saviour is not totally > the key to eternal salvation. > > I don't so much subscribe to "my God" being superior than "their God"; or > that my Saviour is more superior than "their Prophet". I do have some > issues with Islam, which I have delved into numerous times, and believe that > Islam must reform as a whole; (and as Judaism and Christianity have reformed > on numerous occasions) before it can be taken as a legitimate religion in > Western Culture. > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Frederick The Moderate < > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > Keith: "One of our core beliefs is, "Judge Not, Lest Ye Be > Judged"....." > > > So based on your statement above, Keith, you do not judge liberals? > Gays? Muslims? > You do not think that Christians will go to a better place than > Muslims after dying? > You do not believe that ONLY accepting Jesus as your lord and Saviour > will get you into heaven? > If all of the above are correct, you would be an unusual Christian (in > the West, anyway). > > > I was going to attend Methodist Seminary (among the least "fire & > brimstone" of the Christian Churches) after gaining my bachelors. The > old saying is "No one ever comes out of seminary with the same beliefs > they went in with". With me, that happened before I even got there. So > instead, I went into business. > > > Rabbit, I served in the Office of Naval Intelligence during the > presidency of the greatest Republican President of my lifetime - > Ronald Reagan. > > > On Jun 29, 8:58 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Frederick The Moderate < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > - Nowadays, this means that 99.9% of everything God creates, will be > > > kept > > > alive forever, for the purpose of crueltym because they are not just > > > like > > > "Christians". > > > - Jesus did not want this new brand of Judiasm rammed down people's > throats but rather, growth similar to that of Buddhism - based solely > > > on > > > attraction. > > > - There is much more about Western Christian churches with which I > dissent. I respect people right to believe as they wish so I won't try > > > to > > > tell you or anyone else that you're following the "wrong path" because > > > it is > > > simply not for me to judge. Which is another difference between me and > traditional Christians. > > > ============ > > > Obviously, the seminary that you attended must not have been founded in > Catholicism, nor could it have been based on any of the numerous > > > Protestant > > > denominations. Your post also makes me wonder when the last time it was, > that you might have strolled into a Catholic or Protestant Church? One > > > of > > > our core beliefs is, "Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged"..... > > > On Jun 29, 5:45 am, "Mrs. Rabbit" <[email protected]> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Ok, I know I'll be sorry, but please do tell what Jesus *really* > thought. :D > > > Seminary? Really now? > > > At one time, I thought about becoming a pastor. So I got my degree in > theology (you need a Masters in Divinity to be ordained by most > churches). The focus of my studies was ancient Hebrew & Aramaic > customs and idioms. > > > So what Jesus really taught? Just my opinion but there is MUCH to back > it up. And it wasn't everything I believe, just a few points that were > in direct contrast with most (Western) Christian churches that seem to > ignore well, a LOT. > 1. Jesus did not come to start a new religion. He came to open the > Jewish belief in only one God, up to everyone else. > 2. The Jews had forgotten God's message and turned religion into > exactly what Travis and Richard talk about it being nowadays: a venue > of exclusivity, arrogance and politics. Jesus' message was for the > Jews to quit being "holier than thou", stop judging others and just do > their best to live their own lives as spiritually as possible. > Nowadays, this means that 99.9% of everything God creates, will be > kept alive forever, for the purpose of crueltym because they are not > just like "Christians". Swell. Wrong though. > 3. Jesus did his best to make it clear: Whomever you would be quickest > to judge (Samaritans, women, gays, Muslims etc) should be the person > you make it your quest to learn to appreciate and if possible, even > love. Later that came to mean Hate & Judge eveyone who isn't part of > the Jesus Club. > 4. Modern Christians are exactly like the Sadduccess and Pharisees > (the good ol' folks who crucified him) of Jesus' day. Very political > and self-righteous. Self-appointed to determine which parts of the > Bible should be taken literally, which should be interpreted and how, > and why you are going straight to hell if you disagree with them on > any of this. > 5. There is no Satan or Hell. > 6. Revelation was just another piece of coded Apocrypha describing the > current events of the times just after the crucifixion. > 7. Jesus did not want this new brand of Judiasm rammed down people's > throats but rather, growth similar to that of Buddhism - based solely > on attraction. > > > There is much more about Western Christian churches with which I > dissent. I respect people right to believe as they wish so I won't try > to tell you or anyone else that you're following the "wrong path" > because it is simply not for me to judge. Which is another difference > between me and traditional Christians. They want to tell others all > about their brand of religion without ever listening with an open mind > or respecting somenone else's. > All that being said, The Bible and especially the teachings of Jesus > are my spiritual guide and way. > > > On Jun 29, 1:00 am, Frederick The Moderate > > > <[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I was almost banned from seminary for my radical beliefs about > Christianity and what Jesus really taught. Didn't matter. By the > > > time > > > I got my bachelor's, I'd decided that I loved learning the origins > > > and > > > histories of various religions but no longer subscribed to the > exclusivity most believed in. > I have a poster from my (soon to be published!) book, I made which > kinda parodies those types of beliefs. I'll send it to the group > > > with > > > the hopes it doesn't offend as many people at "The Right to bear > > > Arms" > > > did. > > > On Jun 28, 9:49 pm, Perplexed <[email protected]> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I agree completely Richard. I'm one of those "spiritual but not > religious" folks, closer to Buddhism than Christianity in my > > > beliefs. > > > But I detest what organized religion has done to religion. > > > On Jun 28, 8:50 pm, RichardForbes <[email protected]> > <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > I am not agnostic, but I sure am agnostic about attending > > > church. > > > I > > > learned the necessary lessons lon ago and have no use for being > preached to or sold a bill of goods. Most religious leaders > > > are on > > > a > > > level with used car salesmen and politicians. > > > On Jun 28, 2:55 pm, studio <[email protected]> <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > On Jun 28, 12:53 am, Frederick The Moderate > > > <[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Someone posted that there is some pretty extreme prejudice > > > and > > > hatred > > > here. True? Not True? What are your thoughts? > > > You found one of them already. > > > But to address your question; > "What do you think of Islam"? > > > I'm rather neutral in my assessment of Islam, much the way I > > > am > > > with > > > any other religion, > except when they start preaching it to me, or corner > > > me...then I > > > let > > > 'em have it. > > > I had a Muslim Arab girlfriend at one point, and a couple > acquaintances, so I know the pros and cons. > There are good people from all walks of life regardless > > > what-where- > > > when-how they come > by it, I don't concentrate on the bad so much unless it > > > actually > > > needs > > > redress. > Of course there are the bad apples also, but Islam has no > > > exclusive > > > rights to bad teachings. > > > Personally, I'm agnostic, but I don't make a point of > > > preaching > > > it. > > > Let sleeping dogs lay so to speak. > If someone believes in a God, fine. > But don't be laying your God in my lap...as if you could > > > anyway.- > > > Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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