On Friday, March 10, 2023 7:04:30 AM EST Patrick Ben Koetter via Postfix-users wrote: > * Gerald Galster via Postfix-users <list+post...@gcore.biz>: > > > >>> This list uses Mailman configuration settings, not handcrafted code. > > >>> If people believe that it is worthwhile to change the Mailman > > >>> implementation or the DMARC spec, then I suggest that they work > > >>> with the people responsible for that. > > >> > > >> > > >> There is no need for changing implementations, it's already there. > > >> > > >> https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/config > > >> /docs/config.html > > >> ############################ > > >> remove_dkim_headers > > > > > > > > > THAT is a global Mailman setting. It cannot be configured on a > > > per-list basis. The postfix lists are hosted on a multi-tenant > > > service, it does not run on its dedicated MTA. > > > > > > I just wrote that because p@rick (sys4 AG) asked on the mailop > > mailinglist > > 2023-02-17 "Should mailing list messages be DKIM signed? (ARC / DKIM)". > > He was about to setup a new mailing list server with mailman 3. > > Given there are virtually no other lists in postorious index, chances are > > this is a new server currently only hosting the postfix mailinglist > > and some testlists so that settings might not be final yet. > > > > Just out of curiosity it would have been nice to know why he made > > that choice. > > > You mean why I choose to use Mailman 3 and not other MLMs? > > I used to by python.org postmaster for 20 (?) years and there's a natural > sympathy for anything that comes from pydotorg. Then I used to be on the > MM3 developer team in the early 2000s and some of the ideas and concepts I > came up with have found their way into MM3. Besides my personal historic > preferences, I choose MM3 because it has been there for a few years now and > I don't see it being used widely, though I believe it should. We > (community) need a modern MLM and MM3 is modern. There are some things I > don't like about MM3. If you come from Postfix MM3 documentation is, to put > it, frustrating. It's developers who documented what is interesting to > developers, but there don't seem to be any documents for operators. That > kicks in when you need to find out how mailman-core, hyperckitty and > postorius play together. The web application, to me, should really see some > UX love. I constantly get lost hunting options I saw, but I can't remember > where. Besides, rendering descriptions / options of parameters visibly into > the interface blows up each settings page and the rendering lacks > structure. So you end up scanning through a blob of options trying to catch > what might to what you want. Wietse can probably tell how much he suffered > at some point to get MM3 what he wanted it to do for the postfix-mumble > lists. What I like about MM3 is it's approach to subscriber self > management. Once you've become a registered MLM platform participant you > can easily change settings that will apply to all lists you've subscribed > to in one place. I consider that a great usability benefit for subscribers. > > But most of all I wanted to create a Mailing list platform that is capable > of and uses modern email technologies. We have ARC in place and need to > figure out a few undocumented issues we still need to address before it > will actually work. But that's a temporary problem. I want it to use ARC > because even though it is still EXPERIMENTAL, it will likely be here to > stay and ARC has been designed to fix the DMARC issues that had been put on > our shoulders when DMARC was adopted by major industry players. > > And… while I write work is going on in the background to provide a fully > DNSSEC enabled DNS stack which will allow us to host a DANE enabled mailing > list platform. > > ⌁ [p:~] $ dig +short +dnssec MX postfix.org > 10 list.sys4.de. > MX 13 2 3600 20230322050014 20230308042038 60616 postfix.org. > DXMTOwxrFmyCf7fv02gAR0qmVeB78gGwPu74oR17y1l6vls/zbUP7P6C > G5ZZWtHDCMruSzwISYfdwVBNnDdjXg== ⌁ [p:~] $ dig +short +dnssec A > list.sys4.de > 188.68.34.52 > A 8 3 3600 20230315165309 20230308142813 46365 sys4.de. > Oi9o51moM26dA2Y2zMjMXErEz8wj/o+tadfas9QedSv5AqPg0C0uBaZd > 31IeAZRxGxFLwECqLqPncJgyyKkNLXlTY2t1qQ60/GT3rjRof9kmIwpO > lwYgFBwUfsjhz1rPF16W81ya+5DdPJefXuYMN4G6hOWvJPgiMo5qeUGb JFs= > This will allow us to add TLSA RRs to list.sys4.de soonish and then > postfix.org finally will life what it brought to live when Viktor > implemented DANE support making Postfix the first and reference MTA on > this planet to support DANE. > > Secure Email Transport and Email Authentication are the two cornerstones of > todays email policing and my personal wish is to provide a state of the art > platform and hopefully a template how to run mailing lists in the 2020s. > p@rick
I think that all sounds reasonable, although I think you're overselling ARC, but that's a discussion for a different list. Is there any chance of From rewriting being managed on a per-recipient basis? That's the biggest issue I have with the new setup. I mostly have time to read list mail in moments between other things on my phone. I have the choice of displaying either the email address or the friendly name, not both. I display the email address for, I think, reasonably obvious reasons, but then for lists like this one, I have no idea who wrote what. On my deskop, I see: Patrick Ben Koetter via Postfix-users <postfix-users@postfix.org> On my phone, I see: <postfix-users@postfix.org> which isn't super useful. My experience with other lists that have made this change is I tend to participate less. Scott K _______________________________________________ Postfix-users mailing list -- postfix-users@postfix.org To unsubscribe send an email to postfix-users-le...@postfix.org
