On 3 Aug 2004, at 19:37, daniel magee wrote:
There are thousands of scanner operators and CMYK retouchers who believe that in order to get a neutral colour your cyan should be higher than your magneta and yellow AND the magenta and yellow should be equal.
Every day these retouchers and scanners base their corrections around this fairly fundamental belief, a belief wrote about by Dan Margulis and many more I'm sure.
If you create an RGB file with R0 G0 B0 and proof it with the ECI profile "IsoCoated" you will see that it reads cyan 87, magenta 86, yellow 76 and black 99.To all these retouchers this would suggest that it is going to come out with a magenta bias. Therefore they would correct for that to make the mag and yellow match.
Hi Daniel.
You are making some perfectly valid technical arguments that are the same ones being debated at present by the Pic4Press committee . I hope you don't mind me making a few points based on your mail for the benefit of others on this list.
The first is that any profile ( if indeed there ends up being one !) built for Pic4Press would by definition bypass the scanners setting of ink levels.
Secondly , we;re not looking at the ECI IsoCoated profile.
Many would also look at the black and say that 99 percent is too high and would not be happy at all about having to use this profile.
Which is why I mentioned it.
If you compare it to "eurostandard coated" which ships with Photoshop the same R0 G0 B0 converted to CMYK reads C95, M83, Y82 and K90. This would be considered far more acceptable.
Unfortunately , this is giving you a total ink limit of 350% that falls outside the Pass4Press specifications.
I don't have the Cromalin Eurostandard DP10 profile so I can't say what thats like.
There is no definitive "Cromalin Eurostandard DP10 profile'" . We can build a number with different black generation etc , and that's precisely why we are testing.
My point is that if Proof4Press comes out with a profile with dark neutrals that are similar to the ECI profile then so be it
Proof4Press is a different project from Pic4Press , although they are linked.
but they had better be ready to re-educate thousands of scanner operator and retouchers
All of these PPA initiatives are collaborative exercises. There is absolutely no argument that not just scanner operators , but also a lot more the industry needs to play catchup.
and fight some pretty big battles on the way.
Progress in this area is inevitable. I wouldn't lose too much sleep on worrying about battles. The old confrontational approach of some within the industry is on the way out , because of unsustainable argument ,the drive for efficiency and, of course, the economic necessities imposed on all of us. There will no doubt be a flurry of technical debate , and the need for many of us to reappraise our positions ( especially the scanner operators as digital capture is on the ascendant ....a key reason for the Pic4Press scheme. Also when you say CMYK retouchers , I'm a little confused. If you mean colour retouching , then this will be a shrinking market, If you mean cosmetic and manipulative retouching in CMYK then the same applies as we move towards an RGB archival workflow ). However at the end of the day ,the Pic4Press committee is taking a pragmatic approach and intending to produce a 'best practice' model for this project that will encompass everybody's concerns.
Regards,
Bob Marchant.
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