in any other democratic country there would be outrage at such events. people would lose their jobs and some would be jailed. But in USA - supposed bastion of electoral democracy - such incompetence and fraud are just another day in the land of the sorta-free.
-----Original Message----- From: ProFox [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of lelandj Sent: Sunday, 11 November 2012 12:49 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] Florida's voting system sucks It seem the voting system in Arizona is not much better than Florida's; see excerpt and link below provided by the NY Times: #------------------------------------ Excerpt: Three days after the election, the outcome of several Arizona races was unknown as officials struggled to count a record number of early and provisional ballots, many of them cast by voters who believed they had registered but whose names were not on the voter rolls. Lily Canedo, center, held a stack of papers with more than 20,000 signatures from people protesting the uncounted votes outside the Maricopa County Recorder's office in Phoenix on Friday. http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2012/11/09/us/20121110_BALLOTS.html?nl=toda ysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20121110 or http://tinyurl.com/ae6xffh #------------------------------------------------- Regards, LelandJ On 11/09/2012 09:10 PM, lelandj wrote: > On 11/09/2012 09:01 PM, lelandj wrote: >> On 11/09/2012 03:42 PM, Michael Oke wrote: >>> I don't disagree with the vote being sacred and, as such, people who >>> fail to avail themselves of it do a great disservice and not just to >>> themselves. >>> >>> I was not offering the ballot as an excuse, merely wondering if they >>> might contribute to the long queues. >>> >>> I'm not even going to start on the lunacy that exists with counting >>> ballots in Florida. Every vote is supposed to count but maybe not. I >>> understand some of the difficulties with provisional ballots but >>> that doesn't mean that one single vote should go uncounted. >> >> OK. I understand how provisional ballots can delay the announcement >> of the outcome of a close election, and also how provisional ballots >> can be used to manipulate elections. LOL I wasn't aware that >> provisional ballots existed, so they are new to me. >> >> #---------------------------------------------- >> Excerpt: >> >> Potential problems >> >> At their best, provisional ballots provide voters who would otherwise >> be turned away from the polls to have their votes counted, but at >> their worst, the offer of a provisional ballot can be "a way to brush >> off troublesome voters by letting them think they have voted." It is >> possible for parties to force certain voters to cast provisional >> ballots so they can suppress the vote total of an opponent being >> counted on election night. >> >> In the 2004 US Presidential Election, controversy arose out of >> arguments regarding the interpretation of the criteria for >> determining the eligibility of voters using provisional ballots. Many >> allege that these discrepancies of interpretations, particularly in >> Ohio, may have been a deciding factor in the outcome of the election. >> In the 2004 election, at least 1.9 million provisional ballots were >> cast, and 676,000 were never counted due to various states' rules on >> counting provisional ballots. >> >> Studies of the use of provisional ballots in the 2006 general >> election in the United States show that around 21% of provisional >> ballots were rejected, where the majority of rejected ballots were >> cast by registered voters and the majority of rejections were for >> reasons that were preventable.[6] >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_ballot >> >> #--------------------------------------------- >> >> Regards, >> >> LelandJ >> >> > > Here's more: > > http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20565-2004Nov3.html > > Regards, > > LelandJ > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Michael Oke, II >>> 661-349-6221 >>> >>> Contents of this and all messages are intended for their designated >>> recipient. >>> >>> On Nov 9, 2012, at 1:26 PM, "geoff" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Fortunately, most western democracies treat the vote as sacred - >>>> not something that can be taken away. Here in Australia everyone is >>>> entitled to vote unless they are actually in jail at the time >>>> serving a current sentence of 5 years or more. The only other >>>> people denied the vote are the declared mentally incompetent and >>>> the current head of state (the governor-general). >>>> >>>> and the 'ridiculousness' of the ballot is a poor excuse. it is a >>>> relatively simple matter of demand management. And so I question >>>> WHY there are always queues and why voting is encouraged on one >>>> hand and then actively denied by inadequate polling stations. And >>>> then you have the idiocy of florida even choosing not to count >>>> absentee and postal votes 'unless it is close'. who determines >>>> that? >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: ProFox [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael >>>> Oke, II >>>> Sent: Saturday, 10 November 2012 7:08 AM >>>> To: ProFox Email List >>>> Subject: Re: [OT] Florida's voting system sucks >>>> >>>> If 50 years ago that drunken fight resulted in a felony conviction, >>>> then yes you have forfeited your right to vote. Keep in mind that >>>> that doesn't stop people from voting anyway. >>>> >>>> I don't understand the queues either but it might have a bit to do >>>> with the ridiculousness of some of the ballots. >>>> >>>> >>>> Michael Oke, II >>>> 661-349-6221 >>>> >>>> Contents of this and all messages are intended for their designated >>>> recipient. >>>> >>>> On Nov 9, 2012, at 12:27 PM, "geoff" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Why shouldnt they? Surely in any democracy the right to vote should >>>>> only be denied under extreme situations and certianly not that 50 >>>>> years ago you got into a drunken fight and hit someone. >>>>> >>>>> For a democracy, you americans seem quite keen on denying the vote to >>>>> as many as you can either by legislation or by creating such queues >>>>> that people give up. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: ProFox [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael >>>>> Oke, II >>>>> Sent: Saturday, 10 November 2012 4:54 AM >>>>> To: ProFox Email List >>>>> Subject: Re: [OT] Florida's voting system sucks >>>>> >>>>> Why should criminals (felons specifically) be allowed to vote? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Michael Oke, II >>>>> 661-349-6221 >>>>> >>>>> Contents of this and all messages are intended for their designated >>>>> recipient. >>>>> >>>>> On Nov 8, 2012, at 11:19 PM, "geoff" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have to say that as an observer of your voting system that it >>>>>> sucks >>>>>> almost beyond belief. You have queues where people stand half a day >>>>>> to vote when an obvious and rather simple solution is more machines >>>>>> and more staff. You have officials trying to rig the system, Florida >>>>>> denying the vote to those with a criminal record etc etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there any wonder that other countries sent observers to ensure >>>>>> that your elections are free and fair? >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: ProFox [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pete >>>>>> Theisen >>>>>> Sent: Friday, 9 November 2012 5:28 PM >>>>>> To: ProFox Email List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [OT] Florida's voting system sucks >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/09/2012 12:32 AM, lelandj wrote: >>>>>>> Pete, can't Florida get her voting system together? LOL >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm glad the election didn't come down to Florida's 29 electoral >>>>>>> votes; because, I'm pretty sure the Republican controlled state >>>>>>> would have followed along the lines of the 2000 election that put >>>>>>> GWB in >>>>> office. >>>>>>> Finally; three hours ago: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/results >>>>>> Hi Leland, >>>>>> >>>>>> What would Texas have done, given that close a result? >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Pete >>>>>> http://pete-theisen.com/ >>>>>> http://elect-pete-theisen.com/ [excessive quoting removed by server] _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[email protected] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
