Do the ends justify the means, Bob, or is the other way around? That's a serious question.
I loathe police/dictatorial states every bit as much as you do, so no disagreement on that problem. The disagreement is on the solution. You want a military solution, and I say leadership by example was the solution all along. You believe we need authority, I believe we need freedom from authority. The best answers come from within the hearts and minds of people, not ANY ruling class. The deck today is stacked against democracy, but it's actually easy to fix: a good (VFP) client application that helps us choose the best people from the grassroots up, with the relatively small cost to implement borne by taxpayers. Take the money out of the election process and we'll all get a burst of free air. You come up with these lulus like "super-secret sect of Jew lovers" when you can see what I actually said just by searching on the keywords like "neocons", "AIPAC" and "MI complex". But you know that and just can't resist the urge to marginalize what I've actually said by twisting it into hate-speak. The facts fly, that BS sinks. I've not defending Cindy's politics. Honestly I don't even know what she's been saying. I relate to her on one count: her position as a mother who lost a child to war. The rest I'd expect to be far more emotional then objective. > I am also convinced that one day we'll be hit again. I've believed that since 9/11, I'm just > surprised it hasn't happened already. It could at anytime. We agree on the problem, but you don't offer a solution. I'm saying we need to go back to the beginning and get the answer to the question "what were the real reasons for the invasion of Iraq?", and then hold the people behind it accountable for having deceived us into launching that invasion. They say 'intelligence failure' or 'mistake' - those are lies, plain and simple. >Given that Al Qaeda has focused hard on Iraq, I think it provides at >least some kind of evidence that the notion of getting them to spend >their resources there instead of here has at least in the short run >helped to prevent another attack. Hardly. You apparently have no appreciation at all for the numbers of people involved and the frenzy that invasion has whipped up. >I think if democracy in the ME fails because we in our smarmy self-righteous bigotry believe that >freedom really isn't for the Arab people--they can't handle it--then naturally everything we did >good will be undone, and everything we did bad will be magnified against us. That invasion was never about democracy and helping anyone, it was about authority. They planned to roll over Iraq and then deal with Syria, Iran, etc. If we were looking to help them, there are countless ways we could have done that without killing them and destroying their country. And if we wanted to sell democracy, we could have done that - but that would have involved fixing our own very broken democracy in the first place. You just can't see the lies, can you? >> I believe our enemy is taking his time to position for a multi-point super-Tet-style >> attack. >Well you give them more credit than they deserve. I think the real >threat is that next time they'll be aided by Russians and Chinese and >possibly Latin American dictators who are all too happy to have the >Islamic kooks do their dirty work. But that IS what I'm saying. You're just spinning it differently. >I think you brand yourselves as losers. I just called you extremists, >which is a statement of fact. Your views are extreme by just about >any measure. Isn't 'extremist' another word for 'loser'? And am I that, an extremist? The way I see it, my views are pretty consistent with Thomas Jefferson's, and yours too closely resemble Hamilton's. Who is the extremist? >We do live in a free country, all that blather about our becoming a >police state notwithstanding. If you want to see what a police state >is like, go live in Venezuela, or Cuba, or even Russia lately. For >that matter, go work for the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Same concept, >different excuse. But I have lived in a police state: the military. And we are sinking into that state as a whole. The next attack will bring it on big time. >I too can imagine horrific futures, Bill. I prefer instead to enjoy >liberty and try to help other people experience it too. I vastly prefer to put the cards on the table - all of them - and then take the correct action to solve the problem. You can put your head in the sand if you want, but what's at stake means too much to me to join you. Bill _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
