El 11/10/12 11:20, Nicholas Geti escribió:
What a bizarre response.
There is a major difference between U.S.S.R and France. U.S.S.R. is a
dictatorship superimposed on the idea of communism. Always was and is
rapidly moving that way again with Putin stealing the votes. People
were all forced to work for the state. An interview I read by a
reporter a couple of years ago who toured some U.S.S.R. factories made
this comment from a worker, "We pretend to work and the govt. pretends
to pay us."
All right, let's start. Before teaching you politics I should teach you
some English. If you use "is" it refers to the present, to refer to the
past you should use "was". Therefore I think you wanted to write
"U.S.S.R. *_was_* a dictatorship superimposed on the idea of communism",
considering the U.S.S.R. does not exist right now.
Now back to politics. A dictatorship only refers to the way govt is
chosen and how does this govt rules. OTOH, communism/socialism refers to
*where* this ruling takes the country. You wrote "Socialism =
Communism", so if we leave out the way govt is chosen and rules, you
implied France and the USSR had the same system. This is obviously
absurd to the rest of the world, no matter what anecdotes you may bring
forward.
If you read a little you'll find that communism is just a branch of
socialism, as are anarchism, Marxism, etc. It is Marxists that say that
communism is a necessary phase before socialism is achieved. Are you a
Marxist?
The USSR claimed to be socialist, but they also claimed to be a
federation of democratic republics. But if you wish to believe that,
then go ahead.
You rail against the U.S. and how insignificant we are but now you
state that France economy has crashed because of the U.S. poor
economy. I recall that Geoff of Australia was spouting the same
contradictory idea some time ago.
I never said US was insignificant. If you were insignificant then the
damage you could do would not be great. Sadly that is not so.
The whole world crashed because of US poor economic controls, nowadays
economy is tightly knitted and sadly that means we are all in the same
small boat.
I said that the 75% tax would not get them far not that socialism
hasn't occurred. Difficult to spell out everything clearly in a text
message.
It takes a long time for socialism to destroy a country inch by inch.
It is a logarithmic change and speeds up as the years go by until all
of a sudden the world economy get trashed.
You say so with such certainty because you have conducted a long study
on the hundreds of socialist countries that have been destroyed by
socialism?
Up to your pathetic remarks. Always have to make personal derogatory
remarks attempting to get cute. The Democrats are doing the same thing
in Ohio throwing out ads demonizing Mitt Romney. They are really
getting desperate.
I'm sorry, I thought I was talking to a *person*, thus my remarks were
personal, derogatory or not. But if you wish I'll make believe you are a
machine, or a moron, whatever.
I find adding adjectives to every noun very misleading, "brutal
capitalism", my ass.
Really made me doubt, so I searched previous mails (cited below) for the
word "brutal", and nothing. The only reference to "brutal" is yours. So
I can state you are a liar sir.
What caused our crash has been discussed ad nauseum for the past year.
Basically our govt wrote a blank check and guaranteed loans by banks
to all comers regardless of their ability to pay. Alan Greenspan sold
a bill of goods to our Congress who went along with the plan. Bankers
went along because they could make loans without using their own money
and collect huge fees for doing so. This had nothing to do with
capitalism. It was outright fraud against the American people.
If bankers had to use their own money, you can bet they would not have
made those loans.
You bring new light to this world... sorry, I meant to this FICTIONAL world.
BTW, you seem to have no idea how the world rolls. I don't know what
"bankers" are, or if they exist. But high ranking executives will always
make "those loans" because it looks good in balance sheets and gives
them big bonuses. They can always jump sheep when the shit hits the
fan... or they can lobby so that govt bails them out.
I guess your basic philosophy is liberalism, that is, the individual
above all. Whereas socialism believes the individual should make some
sacrifices for the sake of the rest of society (that is called
solidarity). Funny though, if you were in the military (marines for
example) you would completely understand and favour the concept of the
individual making sacrifices for the common good. Big capitalist
companies always ask that you are a "team player", i.e. that you put the
interests of the company over your own. I think you call it "take one
for the team"? What would your concept of a football player that does
not play for the team but for his own benefit? You are forced to embrace
the concept of the individual bowing to the common interest everywhere,
sports, military, neighbourhood, even inside companies. Everywhere,
except in society.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[email protected]>
To: "ProFox Email List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Truth About Jobs
So in your view there is no political difference whatsoever between
France and the URSS?
You take the fun out of it. You'll just admit you are ignorant.
BTW, "let's see how far that gets them" implies they are just starting
to be socialist and you, who know better (because of your greater
experience in a socialist country I guess), are foreseeing what lies
ahead. Please don't be shy, books won't turn you down like ladies do,
they will let you read them. Newspapers too.
Does Miterrand ring a bell? As in France's Socialist president in 1986?
TWENTY NINE YEARS AGO!!!
But hey, whoever say doom would come fast? It takes it's time, doesn't
it?
What's more, the French "welfare state" developed much earlier, it has
been developing since the 18th century.
More recently, the social security administration started in 1945 and
has been gradually extending social protection to all residents in
France. That's a long time. Isn't it.
France actually spends 30% of GDP in the welfare system. What is the
percentage USA spends in military system? What does it tell us? That
France prioritizes solidarity and the well being of it's citizens while
USA prioritizes killing other people?
And let me remind you that right now France is in dire straits, as is
the rest of the world, not because of welfare but because of the
economic crisis generated in the US.
So let's see, it would seem the problems have not been caused by
socialism, nor the welfare system, but because of savage capitalism and
lack of control over speculation. Ironic, isn't it?
El 10/10/12 23:36, Nicholas Geti escribió:
Socialism = Communism
In either case only a handful of people "work for the common good".
The rest are on the dole. A perfect example is France which is a
cradle to grave socialistic state and they are trying to raise the
tax rate to 75% on rich people. Let's see how far that gets them.
Nick Geti
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[email protected]>
To: "ProFox Email List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Truth About Jobs
Which only proves the depth of your ignorance.
El 10/10/12 13:26, Nicholas Geti escribió:
Yep. The two words are spelled differently but the result is the same.
Nick Geti
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ricardo Aráoz" <[email protected]>
To: "ProFox Email List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Truth About Jobs
I think you are wrong there. We all work for the good of *our* system.
For example when your soldiers entered WWII. When your whole country
worked for the "war effort". It didn't look so bad then. Why? Is it
because if "we all work" to kill other people it is all right but if
"we
all work" to help other people then it's not?
BTW, when "we all work for the good of" *our* system is not communism,
it's socialism. Not the same by far.
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