J701 with Vista agree on the results for 0 and 00
pray 0
CREDO CONFITEOR ET EXPECTO AMEN
pray 00
CREDO CONFITEOR ET EXPECTO AMEN
Linda
-----Original Message-----
From: programming-boun...@forums.jsoftware.com
[mailto:programming-boun...@forums.jsoftware.com] On Behalf Of Bo Jacoby
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:28 PM
To: programm...@jsoftware.com
Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] Translating BASIC into J
Ian,
Note that pray '0' and pray '00' is not the same thing.
0: CREDO CONFITEOR ET EXPECTO AMEN
00: CREDO IN DEUM ET IN JESUM ET IN SPIRITUM ET ECCLESIAM CONFITEOR BAPTISMA
ET EXPECTO RESURRECTIONEM ET VITAM AMEN
The linenumbers in the database may be padded to the right with zeroes, but
not the question number.
(Some authors spell EXSPECTO rather than EXPECTO, because it means 'look
out' and has nothing to do with the heart).
I invented Ordinal Fraction, the word, the concept, and the arithmetic, and
everybody hates it but myself. It is far too simple. My article was deleted
from wikipedia where original research is prohibited.
Consider the digits (d=.i.>:9) and the proper digits (p=.>:i.9) . The
ordinal fraction 0 is the infinite cartesian power of the proper digits. It
is the total set of infinite sequences of proper digits. The subsets of 0
where a finite number of prescribed digit positions have prescribed values
are the ordinal fractions. The prescribed digit positions are noted with the
prescribed proper digit, and the other digit positions are marked with digit
0. So an ordinal fraction looks like a decimal number except that it is
padded with zeroes to the right rather than to the left.
1=10=1000 &c.
A concept is modelled by an ordinal fraction in such a way that the logical
relations between concepts are modelled by arithmetical relations between
ordinal fractions.
'Every man is mortal, Alexander is a man, so Alexander is mortal' is
modelled like this
1 mortal
11 man
111 Alexander
That's all for today.
- Bo
>________________________________
> Fra: Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com>
>Til: programm...@jsoftware.com
>Sendt: 16:29 torsdag den 29. november 2012
>Emne: Re: [Jprogramming] Translating BASIC into J
>
>Bo,
>
>I am so sorry for slagging off your program!
>
>Had I known it was yours, I wouldn't have written what I did. I assumed
>this was an educational curio you came across (as I often used to do in
>hobby magazines) and hadn't quite known how it worked -- because you
>had claimed you didn't know how to turn it into J.
>
>I don't either. But I cheated, and sidestepped the
problem.
>
>I doubt if I'd have been able to write it better, for its purpose.
>Which I'd say is to exhibit in lectures and not to support some
>commercial (or religious :-) enterprise. I've written reams of BASIC in
>my time, on all sorts of now-defunct machines, especially for IT
>courseware. I've taught Software Engineering at postgrad level -- so I
>think I'd be permitted to say that classic BASIC is not a language for
>dogmatically sound programming!
>
>Nevertheless my little "slur" served to make the point that to re-cast
>the algorithm to lend itself to J better, you actually find yourself
>untangling the PRINTs from the string-processing, i.e. separating
>processing from I/O (and preparation for I/O). I've migrated a lot of
>heritage code too, from mainframe to MSDOS to Windows to web -- and the
>more closely the programmer has stuck to the principle of separating
>processing from I/O the easier it is to migrate.
It can't
>just be an accident. So I was grinding an axe there.
>
>I was doubtful about permitting (pray) to accept its y-arg as an
>integer as well as a string of digits. I only permitted it for the
>convenience of experimenters. Thus (pray '010') is decidedly not the
>same as (pray '10') but (pray 010) confounds the two.
>
>Thanks for explaining where the record numbering system came from.
>Since it didn't matter for the purpose of translating the code, I
>didn't make the effort to understand how it worked. But it's really a
>topic of investigation in its own right. It reminds me of
>Wittgenstein's paragraph-numbering system in Tractatus. I'd be grateful
>for a reference to "ordinal fractions" -- Wikipedia doesn't seem to
>recognise the term in an arithmetical rather than a linguistic sense. I
>guessed that it was a way of representing a tree as a single integer.
>Such a domain would have interesting mathematical
properties,
>and a J library to handle it would have its uses, given the lack of an
>agreed "natural" way of handling trees in J, as opposed to Python say.
>(I'm forgetting of course the nested box structure delivered by 5!:1).
>
>IanClark
>
>On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Bo Jacoby <bojac...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>> Ian, you did an amazing job! Thank you very much!
>>
>> You write about my BASIC program: "Like many amateur programs, it
>> thoroughly mixes up input, processing and output. Even in the 1960s
>> when BASIC was invented (Kemeny & Kurtz,
>> 1964) this was recognised to be a bad thing". Yes, everybody knew how
>> to criticize, but few BASIC programs were actually easy to read and
>> understand. My excuse, apart from being such an amateur, is that I
>> kept it down to 8 lines. It could have been worse. The input
>> statements were INPUT;C$
which reads a textstring from the terminal, and LINE INPUT#1,A$ which
reads a line from the file into a textstring. The output statements were
PRINT":"; which outputs a colon without carriage return, and PRINT
which outputs the carriage return - in those days the typewriter terminal
had a physical carriage to return - and PRINT" ";A$; which outputs
first a blank sign, then the word, and no carriage return. The statements
A%=ASC(A$)-48: A$=MID$(A$,2) translates the first digit in the line number
into an integer, and chops if off the string.
>>
>> The database structure is flexible in that it fuses the array structure
and the tree structure together into a single structure. Compare pray 0 with
pray 00 and pray 000 to see the tree structure, while pray 13500 shows a 2*2
array.
>>
>>
>> In extended versions of the program
in FORTRAN and in Pascal I included an editor to insert, modify and delete
records. (If a record was there already it was modified, otherwise it was
inserted. Empty records were deleted.) Modifying a line number restructured
the database. For example changing 0 to 2 ment that all line numbers in the
database were prefixed by digit 2.
>>
>>
>> The line numbers are ordinal fractions: "1" is the first half and "2" is
the second half, "first" and "second" are ordinals and "half" is a fraction.
That's why! "0" means both halfs.
>>
>>
>> Ordinal fractions are like arrays except:
>>
>> * an array has only a finite number of dimension, while an
ordinalfraction has an infinite number of dimensions.
>> * arrays have different shapes, while all ordinalfractions have
the same shape.
>> * an array may have subarrays and
elements, while an ordinalfraction has sub - ordinalfractions, but no
elements.
>> * arrayelements have values and subarrays do not have values,
while ordinalfractions have values.
>> I am fascinated by the power of ordinal fraction arithmetic, but it is
far more heretical than artificial catholicism. Beware of the inquisition!
>>
>> - Bo
>>
>>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>> Fra: Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com>
>>>Til: programm...@jsoftware.com
>>>Sendt: 3:58 torsdag den 29. november 2012
>>>Emne: Re: [Jprogramming] Translating BASIC into J
>>>
>>>Here's my take on the topic:
>>>http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/IanClark/credo
>>>
>>>There's a script at the bottom of the wiki page you can download.
>>>
>>>I haven't attempted to replicate BASIC's itty-bitty I/O, all mixed-up
>>>in the processing. As well write a mini interpreter in J and get it
>>>to run the BASIC code!
>>>
>>>Instead I've intuited the algorithm and done it as a J-er would.
>>>Might.
>>>Would.
>>>(At least, as this J-er would).
>>>
>>>IanClark
>>>
>>>On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Bo Jacoby <bojac...@yahoo.dk> wrote:
>>>> Dear J'ers.
>>>>
>>>> At the Norddata conference in Göteborg in the summer 1989 I gave a
>>>> lecture (in Danish) on Ultraflexible Database Structure and
>>>> Artificial
Catholicism.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It contained this 8-liner in BASIC.
>>>> ...snipped...
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
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