Correct Linda. That is a bug in the translation from BASIC to J. - Bo
>________________________________ > Fra: Linda Alvord <lindaalv...@verizon.net> >Til: programm...@jsoftware.com >Sendt: 1:54 fredag den 30. november 2012 >Emne: Re: [Jprogramming] Translating BASIC into J > >J701 with Vista agree on the results for 0 and 00 > > pray 0 >CREDO CONFITEOR ET EXPECTO AMEN > pray 00 >CREDO CONFITEOR ET EXPECTO AMEN > >Linda > >-----Original Message----- >From: programming-boun...@forums.jsoftware.com >[mailto:programming-boun...@forums.jsoftware.com] On Behalf Of Bo Jacoby >Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:28 PM >To: programm...@jsoftware.com >Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] Translating BASIC into J > >Ian, > >Note that pray '0' and pray '00' is not the same thing. > >0: CREDO CONFITEOR ET EXPECTO AMEN >00: CREDO IN DEUM ET IN JESUM ET IN SPIRITUM ET ECCLESIAM CONFITEOR BAPTISMA >ET EXPECTO RESURRECTIONEM ET VITAM AMEN > >The linenumbers in the database may be padded to the right with zeroes, but >not the question number. > > >(Some authors spell EXSPECTO rather than EXPECTO, because it means 'look >out' and has nothing to do with the heart). > >I invented Ordinal Fraction, the word, the concept, and the arithmetic, and >everybody hates it but myself. It is far too simple. My article was deleted >from wikipedia where original research is prohibited. > >Consider the digits (d=.i.>:9) and the proper digits (p=.>:i.9) . The >ordinal fraction 0 is the infinite cartesian power of the proper digits. It >is the total set of infinite sequences of proper digits. The subsets of 0 >where a finite number of prescribed digit positions have prescribed values >are the ordinal fractions. The prescribed digit positions are noted with the >prescribed proper digit, and the other digit positions are marked with digit >0. So an ordinal fraction looks like a decimal number except that it is >padded with zeroes to the right rather than to the left. >1=10=1000 &c. > >A concept is modelled by an ordinal fraction in such a way that the logical >relations between concepts are modelled by arithmetical relations between >ordinal fractions. > >'Every man is mortal, Alexander is a man, so Alexander is mortal' is >modelled like this >1 mortal >11 man >111 Alexander > >That's all for today. >- Bo > > > > >>________________________________ >> Fra: Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> >>Til: programm...@jsoftware.com >>Sendt: 16:29 torsdag den 29. november 2012 >>Emne: Re: [Jprogramming] Translating BASIC into J >> >>Bo, >> >>I am so sorry for slagging off your program! >> >>Had I known it was yours, I wouldn't have written what I did. I assumed >>this was an educational curio you came across (as I often used to do in >>hobby magazines) and hadn't quite known how it worked -- because you >>had claimed you didn't know how to turn it into J. >> >>I don't either. But I cheated, and sidestepped the >problem. >> >>I doubt if I'd have been able to write it better, for its purpose. >>Which I'd say is to exhibit in lectures and not to support some >>commercial (or religious :-) enterprise. I've written reams of BASIC in >>my time, on all sorts of now-defunct machines, especially for IT >>courseware. I've taught Software Engineering at postgrad level -- so I >>think I'd be permitted to say that classic BASIC is not a language for >>dogmatically sound programming! >> >>Nevertheless my little "slur" served to make the point that to re-cast >>the algorithm to lend itself to J better, you actually find yourself >>untangling the PRINTs from the string-processing, i.e. separating >>processing from I/O (and preparation for I/O). I've migrated a lot of >>heritage code too, from mainframe to MSDOS to Windows to web -- and the >>more closely the programmer has stuck to the principle of separating >>processing from I/O the easier it is to migrate. >It can't >>just be an accident. So I was grinding an axe there. >> >>I was doubtful about permitting (pray) to accept its y-arg as an >>integer as well as a string of digits. I only permitted it for the >>convenience of experimenters. Thus (pray '010') is decidedly not the >>same as (pray '10') but (pray 010) confounds the two. >> >>Thanks for explaining where the record numbering system came from. >>Since it didn't matter for the purpose of translating the code, I >>didn't make the effort to understand how it worked. But it's really a >>topic of investigation in its own right. It reminds me of >>Wittgenstein's paragraph-numbering system in Tractatus. I'd be grateful >>for a reference to "ordinal fractions" -- Wikipedia doesn't seem to >>recognise the term in an arithmetical rather than a linguistic sense. I >>guessed that it was a way of representing a tree as a single integer. >>Such a domain would have interesting mathematical >properties, >>and a J library to handle it would have its uses, given the lack of an >>agreed "natural" way of handling trees in J, as opposed to Python say. >>(I'm forgetting of course the nested box structure delivered by 5!:1). >> >>IanClark >> >>On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Bo Jacoby <bojac...@yahoo.dk> wrote: >>> Ian, you did an amazing job! Thank you very much! >>> >>> You write about my BASIC program: "Like many amateur programs, it >>> thoroughly mixes up input, processing and output. Even in the 1960s >>> when BASIC was invented (Kemeny & Kurtz, >>> 1964) this was recognised to be a bad thing". Yes, everybody knew how >>> to criticize, but few BASIC programs were actually easy to read and >>> understand. My excuse, apart from being such an amateur, is that I >>> kept it down to 8 lines. It could have been worse. The input >>> statements were INPUT;C$ >which reads a textstring from the terminal, and LINE INPUT#1,A$ which >reads a line from the file into a textstring. The output statements were >PRINT":"; which outputs a colon without carriage return, and PRINT >which outputs the carriage return - in those days the typewriter terminal >had a physical carriage to return - and PRINT" ";A$; which outputs >first a blank sign, then the word, and no carriage return. The statements >A%=ASC(A$)-48: A$=MID$(A$,2) translates the first digit in the line number >into an integer, and chops if off the string. >>> >>> The database structure is flexible in that it fuses the array structure >and the tree structure together into a single structure. Compare pray 0 with >pray 00 and pray 000 to see the tree structure, while pray 13500 shows a 2*2 >array. >>> >>> >>> In extended versions of the program >in FORTRAN and in Pascal I included an editor to insert, modify and delete >records. (If a record was there already it was modified, otherwise it was >inserted. Empty records were deleted.) Modifying a line number restructured >the database. For example changing 0 to 2 ment that all line numbers in the >database were prefixed by digit 2. >>> >>> >>> The line numbers are ordinal fractions: "1" is the first half and "2" is >the second half, "first" and "second" are ordinals and "half" is a fraction. >That's why! "0" means both halfs. >>> >>> >>> Ordinal fractions are like arrays except: >>> >>> * an array has only a finite number of dimension, while an >ordinalfraction has an infinite number of dimensions. >>> * arrays have different shapes, while all ordinalfractions have >the same shape. >>> * an array may have subarrays and >elements, while an ordinalfraction has sub - ordinalfractions, but no >elements. >>> * arrayelements have values and subarrays do not have values, >while ordinalfractions have values. >>> I am fascinated by the power of ordinal fraction arithmetic, but it is >far more heretical than artificial catholicism. Beware of the inquisition! >>> >>> - Bo >>> >>> >>> >>>>________________________________ >>>> Fra: Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> >>>>Til: programm...@jsoftware.com >>>>Sendt: 3:58 torsdag den 29. november 2012 >>>>Emne: Re: [Jprogramming] Translating BASIC into J >>>> >>>>Here's my take on the topic: >>>>http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/IanClark/credo >>>> >>>>There's a script at the bottom of the wiki page you can download. >>>> >>>>I haven't attempted to replicate BASIC's itty-bitty I/O, all mixed-up >>>>in the processing. As well write a mini interpreter in J and get it >>>>to run the BASIC code! >>>> >>>>Instead I've intuited the algorithm and done it as a J-er would. >>>>Might. >>>>Would. >>>>(At least, as this J-er would). >>>> >>>>IanClark >>>> >>>>On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Bo Jacoby <bojac...@yahoo.dk> wrote: >>>>> Dear J'ers. >>>>> >>>>> At the Norddata conference in Göteborg in the summer 1989 I gave a >>>>> lecture (in Danish) on Ultraflexible Database Structure and >>>>> Artificial >Catholicism. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It contained this 8-liner in BASIC. >>>>> ...snipped... >>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>- For information about J forums see >>>>http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - For information about J forums see >>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
