I certainly agree with you about the nature of the problem, when writing J.
It's just that we also need to solve the implementation issues (hopefully without making a horrible mess of things) if we want to solve this. Thanks, -- Raul On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Don Guinn <[email protected]> wrote: > Why do I want to put something like (3 : 0)"0 to start the definition? In > many cases it makes the definition clearer. And avoids having to repeat the > "0 in every use to avoid the definition failing if it only works for rank > 0. Also, sometimes I want to get some information before the enclosing > local names are hidden. > > The problem I ran into when wanting to include rank or some other tacit > processing on the data before entering the explicit definition is that the > debugger then treats the entire explicit part as one line. To avoid this I > have to define the verb without the "0 for testing, then add it afterward. > > On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Note that this creates a new problem -- what kind of state does the >> debugger need to track? >> >> Without the "0 we only have one instance of the explicit verb state. >> With the "0 we can have millions of instances of the explicit verb >> state. Of course, we only execute one instance at a time, but now we >> are asking the interpreter to do some kind of extra tracking for verbs >> derived by (") and not just in verbs derived by ( :) ... >> >> Anyways, it's doable, but I'm not convinced that "just addressing this >> one common case" would yield simpler code than what we'd get from a >> proper design. >> >> But maybe Roger or Henry or others have deeper insights than I (and I >> will note that there's a related struggle having to do with how we >> handle the display when intermediate results become both numerous and >> large). >> >> -- >> Raul >> >> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Don Guinn <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Being able to step through a tacit definition as Henry's work shows sure >> > would be great. But as a start it would be nice if the explicit debugger >> > like the one in J6 did not get confused if a definition included some >> tacit >> > expression like "0 in the definition line. >> > >> > test=:(3 : 0)"0 >> > (rank 0 processing) >> > ) >> > >> > On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> >> That sounds great! >> >> >> >> What does it mean? >> >> >> >> (Note that Henry's recent efforts might be relevant, here.) >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Raul >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Don Guinn <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > How about the debugger handle tacit definitions as well as explicit >> ones? >> >> > >> >> > On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 3:58 AM, Linda Alvord < >> [email protected]> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > However, I do not understand how ic and ic2 agree when they don't! >> >> >> >> >> >> . . . >> >> >> >> >> >> Personally, I sometimes wish that a rank decoration or other modifier >> >> >> on an explicit definition would not interfere with debugging. I >> think >> >> >> that this issue introduces two different phrasing styles, and there's >> >> >> a tension between them that I am not totally sure is good for us. >> >> >> . . . >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > For information about J forums see >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
