Although these choices might be guidelines, Ken always encouraged the teaching 
of "s

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of km
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 12:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] Learning J language - initial thoughts

Thanks.  This was more work than deleting names from Vocabulary, and it is 
worth it.  --Kip

Sent from my iPad


On Mar 15, 2013, at 10:37 PM, Marshall Lochbaum <[email protected]> wrote:

> Here's a stab at this kind of organization, leaving out words for 
> specific areas of math. Of course these words can be organized in much 
> the same way.
> 
> BASICS
> =. Is (Local)    =: Is (Global)
> _ Negative Sign / Infinity
> : Explicit / Monad-Dyad
> " Rank (m"n u"n m"v u"v)
> NB. Comment
> _9: to 9: and _: Constant Functions
> 
> 
> ARITHMETIC
> - Negate
> % Reciprocal
>> : Increment
>                        <: Decrement
> + • Plus                +: Double
> - • Minus               -: Halve
> * • Times               *: Square
> % • Divide              %: Square Root
> 
> <. Floor • Lesser Of (Min)
>> . Ceiling • Larger of (Max)
> 
> ^ Exponential • Power   ^. Natural Log • Logarithm
> 
> 
> LOGIC
> = • Equal               ~: • Not-Equal
> < • Less Than           <: • Less Or Equal
>> • Larger Than         >: • Larger Or Equal
> 
> +. • Or                 *. • And
> -. Not
> 
> 
> LISTS
> $ Shape Of • Shape      # Tally • Copy
> , Ravel • Append        ,: Itemize • Laminate
> 
> { • From
> {. Head • Take          {: Tail •
> }. Behead • Drop        }: Curtail •
> 
> -: • Match
> |. Reverse • Rotate (Shift)
> 
> / Insert • Table
> 
> i. Integers • Index Of
> e. Raze In • Member (In)
> 
> /:~ Sort Up             \:~ Sort Down
> -. • Less
> ~. Nub
> 
> 
> COMPOSITIONS
> ^: Power (If)
> ~ Reflex • Passive
> @ Atop                  @: At
> & Bond / Compose        &: Appose
> &. Under                &.: Under
> [ Same • Left           ] Same • Right
> 
> 
> STRINGS
> ". Do                   ": Default Format
> a. Alphabet
> 
> 
> BOXES
> < Box                   > Open
> ; Raze • Link
> ;: Words
> 
> Marshall
> 
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:00:41PM -0400, Marshall Lochbaum wrote:
>> I'll jump in here and point out that words vary massively in their 
>> potential to confuse. You've taken out >: <: +: -: *: %: , but these 
>> verbs are dead simple to remember (and, as a bonus, you can do all of 
>> them at once), and often make reasoning with J a lot easier. I 
>> couldn't teach J without using these because they are simple monadic 
>> verbs with easy utility. +/&.:*: is a great way to teach how &.: works.
>> +/&.:(^&0.5) is not.
>> 
>> On the other hand there are the words--particularly conjunctions and 
>> adverbs--that are very difficult to figure out. You've taken out most 
>> of these, like /. and ;. . I think } and ,. also belong in this 
>> category. } is, though merely awkward in theory, actually a patchwork 
>> of corner cases. ,. and to a lesser extent ,: are difficult to get 
>> right, and I think ,. is better taught as ,"_1 in both valences. 
>> These are the words that really need to be taken out. Leave the 
>> technically useless but simple and convenient words alone.
>> 
>> This list looks like it's tending towards an effort to gut as many 
>> words as possible and make the language look small. I think a better 
>> approach would be to organize words into a few groups--arithmetic, 
>> logic, lists, compositions, and heavy mathematics--which contain a 
>> larger selection of useful operations and stress the symmetry of 
>> these (why would you take out any of {. {: }. }: when they are easy 
>> to teach in a group?). Words that are truly confusing and take a long 
>> time to understand (H. ,
>> anyone?) would be left out.
>> 
>> Marshall
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 08:15:29PM -0500, km wrote:
>>> 
>>> Here's the latest J core, using additional paring suggested by Raul.
>>> 
>>> I did keep }: because of puzzling things that happen if you use _1&{. 
>>> instead (giving you a vector instead of a scalar).  And I took out GCD .
>>> 
>>> --Kip Murray
>>> 
>>>>> <<  Usr  Pri  JfC  LJ  Phr  Dic  Rel  Voc  !:  Help  Dictionary
>>> 
>>> Vocabulary  ( Constants   Controls   Foreigns   Parts of Speech )  
>>> 
>>> =  • Equal    =. Is (Local)    =: Is (Global)
>>> < Box • Less Than    <. Floor • Lesser Of (Min)    <:  • Less Or Equal
>>>> Open • Larger Than    >. Ceiling • Larger of (Max)    >:  • Larger Or Equal
>>> _ Negative Sign / Infinity    
>>> 
>>> 
>>> +  • Plus    
>>> 
>>> *  • Times    
>>> 
>>> - Negate • Minus    -. Not • Less    -:  • Match
>>> % Reciprocal • Divide    
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ^ Exponential • Power    
>>> ^: Power (u^:n u^:v)
>>> $ Shape Of • Shape    
>>> 
>>> ~ Reflex • Passive    ~. Nub •    ~:  • Not-Equal
>>> | Magnitude • Residue    |. Reverse • Rotate (Shift)    
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> : Explicit / Monad-Dyad    
>>> 
>>> , Ravel • Append    ,. Ravel Items • Stitch    ,: Itemize • Laminate
>>> ; Raze • Link    
>>> ;: Words
>>> 
>>> # Tally • Copy    
>>> 
>>> ! Factorial    
>>> 
>>> / Insert • Table    
>>> /:  • Sort
>>> \ Prefix    
>>> \:  • Sort
>>> 
>>> [ Same • Left        [: Cap
>>> ] Same • Right         
>>> {  • From    {. Head • Take    {: Tail •   
>>> }  • Amend (m} u})    }. Behead • Drop    
>>> 
>>> " Rank (m"n u"n)    ". Do •    ": Default Format • Format
>>> 
>>>    
>>> @ Atop    @. Agenda    
>>> & Bond / Compose    &. Under (Dual)    
>>> ? Roll • Deal    
>>> 
>>> a. Alphabet    a: Ace (Boxed Empty)    
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> e.  • Member (In)
>>> E. • Member of Interval    
>>> 
>>> 
>>> i. Integers • Index Of    
>>> I. Indices • Interval Index
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> NB. Comment    
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>      
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> <<  Usr  Pri  JfC  LJ  Phr  Dic  Rel  Voc  !:  Help  Dictionary
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mar 15, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Greg Borota <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 3) I am not the first to mention this. I wish there was a minimal J 
>>>> language core documented/available. I see veterans on this forum 
>>>> saying things like: "I almost never use some of those verbs". Is 
>>>> there not a minimal J language core targeting general language use? 
>>>> For example, leaving out specifics like numerical analysis, 
>>>> statistics, etc. This might help some not drop by the way side. 
>>>> E.g. http://xprogramming .com/category/j-language/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mar 15, 2013, at 3:26 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ...
>>>> 
>>>> I'd probably also eliminate foreigns from "core".  Foreigns are 
>>>> about as peripheral as you can get.  The beginner should probably 
>>>> be told to start with covers (fread, fwrite, ...).
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -- For information about J forums see 
>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
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For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

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