Thanks Pascal, Believe it or not I did simplify this quite a bit from where I originally was, based on you previous comments. I'll play around some more to see if I can slim it down further and still have it intuitive (which is actually one of the targets that I am aiming for in addition to the 'different things should display differently')
I have attached the script of the simple test page to the wiki at http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/http%3A/www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/BobTherriault/Visualize?action=AttachFile If you want to play. Cheers, bob On Feb 11, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Pascal Jasmin <godspiral2...@yahoo.ca> wrote: > I like it. > > I'll restate my preference for simpler css. Using colour only if boxes > aren't completely necessary (datatype). > > I understand the desire to deal with leading 0 shapes, but I think leading 1 > shapes are what byte people/beginers the most. For instance assuming that }. > and {: produce identical results with 2 elements. > > So, if there was a way to only box-decorate items when there is a leading 1 > or 0 dimension, I think it would be very helpful without being as noisy. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: robert therriault <bobtherria...@mac.com> > To: Programming forum <programm...@jsoftware.com> > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:14:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] problem matching boxed string > > Thanks Raul, > > I am currently working on the boxing display and you are right, it does > present some different challenges. My plan is to have the script on the wiki > for general amusement later this afternoon. I have put this together as a way > to see the results of the language in a way that I found more useful and it > involves a mix of html, css and J, so as far as coding I think of myself as a > hobbyist rather than a pro. > > It should not be hard to change the size of the empty spots and I think that > is a really good idea. The nice thing about CSS is that you can change > appearance across classes, although the complexity can avalanche when you > start to decide how classes will display based on the context of other > classes. > > Anyway, I will post when I have the script up on the jwiki. > > Cheers, bob > > On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:51 AM, Raul Miller <rauldmil...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> This looks promising. >> >> I currently have two quibbles which you might want to reject: >> >> First, the additional markup seems to get in the way for some typical >> cases. I can see the need for leading 1 dimensions and embedded zero >> dimensions. I understand the idea of consistent display of information, but >> there's so much going on when arrays have no zeros or ones in their shape >> and I can't help but wonder if a reduced complexity presentation might be >> nice, at least as a later option? >> >> Second, when there are zeros in the shape, the placeholders are the same >> size and "shape" (ha ha, get it? shape... eh... maybe you had to be there) >> as when data is present. Maybe you could shrink the cell size for empty >> cells? >> >> I should also probably watch it again for how you display boxed data. One >> of my worries is that with so much decoration on "flat" arrays that boxing >> will get lost in the noise. >> >> That said, from a user point of view, I can totally imagine wanting to be >> able to customize this, and I can also imagine not wanting to touch it and >> wanting it to lead me off to some other page that shows me how to reason >> about it, and I can also imagine wanting to take the data and wanting to >> play with it and render it in other ways. So I guess also there are plenty >> of opportunities for the future. >> >> If I were a manager, though, I might want you to ship it right now, the way >> it is. >> >> Fortunately, you don't have to please me. I do not know what I would want >> if I were just starting. We need more beginners, and maybe that is >> something we can do something about, over the next few weeks and months. >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> Raul >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:21 AM, robert therriault >> <bobtherria...@mac.com>wrote: >> >>> Just an update on the visualization of J results. >>> >>> I have done a second video/blog post on using CSS and HTML to display >>> results on JHS. It provides examples of a system that allows you to >>> distinguish between 1 $ 1 , 1 1 $1 , and 1 as well as displaying arrays >>> with zeros in the shape such as 0 1 $ 1 and 1 0 $ 1. >>> >>> Blog post is here: >>> http://bobtherriault.wordpress.com/2014/02/11/using-css-and-html-to-display-the-shapes-of-arrays-on-the-jhs-platform/?relatedposts_exclude=513 >>> >>> Cheers, bob >>> >>> On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:25 AM, robert therriault <bobtherria...@mac.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 4, 2014, at 5:29 AM, Raul Miller <rauldmil...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Of course you will also get an error if you try to combine one of >>>>> those with another array of the wrong shape. Error conditions are one >>>>> of the cases where I like getting the shapes of arrays. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Sometimes the zeros can affect the result even though they can't be seen >>> in the display >>>> >>>> $ ( 0 2 3 $ 4), 5 7 $5 >>>> 1 5 7 >>>> $ (0 0 2 3 $ 4), 5 7 $5 >>>> 1 1 5 7 >>>> >>>> I am looking for ways to give the programmer some 'leverage' into these >>> situations by the ways that shapes are displayed >>>> >>>>> One of my favorite tricks, if I am getting an error from an expression >>>>> that seems to be due to of a lack of shapeliness (like a length error) >>>>> is to replace the last verb with $ (or a variation like ;&$ or $&.> or >>>>> ;&($ L:0) or whatever else). >>>>> >>>>> And that brings up another issue related to finding the shapes of >>>>> things: the shape inside a box will typically be different from the >>>>> shape outside the box (these shapes are "independent" of each other). >>>> >>>> Yep, I am working on boxes at the moment and it is a challenge for >>> display while retaining the independent shape of contents. >>>> >>>>> Also, the shape of transitory arrays (intermediate results) can also >>>>> matter. So familiarity with debugging tools and techniques can be >>>>> crucial - sometimes even more important for coding than familiarity >>>>> with shape and rank issues. (These are not, properly speaking, a part >>>>> of the language itself so much as they are a part of the environment. >>>>> But that's something of a technicality.) >>>> >>>> No doubt. Display can't replace knowing how rank and shape work. I am >>> hoping that a little better way of displaying results will make it easier >>> to see the differences and may emphasize the importance of understanding >>> the concepts to those learning the language - that would be me! >>>> >>>> Cheers, bob >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
