Thanks Raul, I am happy with some of the progress that I am making in my projects (and occasionally programming as well), but I like the poetry of J and in that way part of the challenge is placing the context through the examples. Without that context a poem is just pretty words on a page and a tacit expression without examples may not even reveal its valence.
I think that there are opportunities in combining good test driven development with the rapid prototyping abilities of J -- but first I am playing with J Labs as a medium of expression, education, art etc. Cheers, bob ps. I appreciate the support for my work. The fact that I am a terrible programmer does not keep me from making terrible programs that explore neat ideas. Life's too short to let a lack of talent hold you back :-) On May 15, 2014, at 11:10 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > I would not knock "starting from scratch" as a bad thing. Arthur Whitney > has been known to do that, for example. > > I think it matters more what you are accomplishing and your ability to make > that useful for other people. > > Thanks, > > -- > Raul > > > On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 2:07 AM, robert therriault > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> I am a terrible programmer, but I have found that including comments that >> have examples of what the entity should do, are usually enough for me to >> figure out what is going on. >> >> Without that ... I usually start from scratch, as that is faster and less >> frustrating. >> >> I really am terrible at programming. >> >> Cheers, bob >> >> >> On May 15, 2014, at 10:52 PM, 'Bo Jacoby' via Programming < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> "how does one write understandable J?" One does not write understandable >> J! One writes as compactly as possible, and if it needs to be understood >> it's parts are investigated piece by piece. Understandability is not a >> property of text, but rather a property of relationship between text and >> reader. / Bo. >>> >>> Den 3:51 fredag den 16. maj 2014 skrev Don Guinn <[email protected]>: >>> >>> What is easy and obvious depends so much on one's background. Several >> years >>>> ago we tried to teach a woman, at the time in her 80's, how to use a >>>> Windows computer. Total failure. The real problem was that she could >> see no >>>> use in or reason to use a computer. She had no interest in learning it. >>>> >>>> Anyone who thinks that today's computer technology is intuitive, obvious >>>> and easy should go to an old folk's home and try to teach them to use a >>>> smart phone. But for a four-year-old. Piece of cake. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:10 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am convinced that most code is not understandable to most people, >>>>> regardless of the language it is written in. When I look at how the >>>>> computer industry has progressed, I see this more and more. People >> write >>>>> huge amounts of code, don't document it very well, then other people >> use >>>>> arbitrary bits of it and things sort of just freeze at that point. >>>>> >>>>> Personally, also, when I read code in any language, I do not feel I >> really >>>>> understand it until I see what it does to representative data. >>>>> >>>>> So clear descriptions, simple data, and good labels are where I would >> focus >>>>> most of my efforts in making code readable. And I would also expect >> that >>>>> most of my code is going to be unread by most people (and I'll get >> dinged >>>>> for utterly random stuff by people who do read it). >>>>> >>>>> I think the point of readability is: you are going to need to be able >> to >>>>> fix it, yourself, when it breaks, so you need to make it readable for >>>>> yourself. And for that purpose, coming back and trying to read it a >> month >>>>> or so after you've written it can be a good exercise. >>>>> >>>>> Also, I've found that documenting code is a great way of making code >>>>> simpler. It's quite often the case that it's easier to change the code >> to >>>>> be easy to document than it is to document some coding quirks that >>>>> originally seemed to be a good idea. So if you want readable code, >> another >>>>> good thing to do is have a technical writer (or at least someone >> reasonably >>>>> literate) work with the programmer to document it for some audience. >>>>> >>>>> Of course, the most important thing is making sure that it works. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Raul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Kip Murray <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> How does one write understandable J? I offer my newt adverb below >> which >>>>>> uses spaces to promote understandability. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another technique might be Linda's "bottom up" style of first showing >>>>>> pieces then putting the pieces together. What are your techniques? >>>>> Please >>>>>> illustrate. >>>>>> >>>>>> We would like at least to understand our own code when we come back to >>>>> it! >>>>>> >>>>>> NB. Newton's method >>>>>> >>>>>> newt =: 1 : 0 >>>>>> t =. y >>>>>> h =. 1 % 512 >>>>>> whilst. t ~: s do. >>>>>> s =. t >>>>>> t =. s - +: h * (u s) % (u s + h) - u s - h >>>>>> h =. h % 2 >>>>>> end. >>>>>> t >>>>>> ) >>>>>> (2 - *:) newt 2 NB. Find root of 2 - *: near 2 >>>>>> 1.41421 >>>>>> (2 - *:) newt _2 NB. Find a root near _2 >>>>>> _1.41421 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> For information about J forums see >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
