" But dissect will never look inside an explicit verb. Maybe I could start a debug window, but that's the most I could do.
" The above makes sense to me. " I thought about an options to expand tacit verbs before dissecting, or to apply f. so that dissect 'verb f. noun' would expand verb before dissecting. Both those are feasible. " In my opinion this would have some drawbacks (if I am interpreting the proposal correctly): First, dissect would then explain all the verb components of the root verb (and for complex tacit verbs this could be overwhelming) instead of interactively explaining the components that one would like to be explained. Second, the conceptual structure of the root verb reflected in the way it was written could be lost. Last, but personally not least, dissect understandably and rightfully complains and refuses to dissect any (wicked) verb that returns anything that is not a noun; however, it does not mind to dissect verbs that use wicked verbs as long as the wicked verbs are covered (away from its vision). I appreciate this current behavior. " Dissect doesn't look inside verbs. If there is a demand for it, I will add a feature that lets you click on the name of a tacit verb to open a new dissect window opening that verb. " I really like this proposal. I am assuming that the expansion corresponding only to the linear representation, as opposed to the full expansion, of the clicked verb would be the one dissected in the new opened window. On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Henry Rich <[email protected]> wrote: > I am leaning toward putting () around all J, including y. > > > > Dissect doesn't look inside verbs. If there is a demand for it, I will > add a feature that lets you click on the name of a tacit verb to open a new > dissect window opening that verb. > > But dissect will never look inside an explicit verb. Maybe I could start > a debug window, but that's the most I could do. > > I thought about an options to expand tacit verbs before dissecting, or to > apply f. so that dissect 'verb f. noun' would expand verb before > dissecting. Both those are feasible. > > Henry Rich > > > > On 3/5/2015 8:52 AM, Björn Helgason wrote: > >> Let me think about this a bit - and others please step in. >> >> I remember translating J for C and I basically remember just the . being a >> real problem sometimes in flowing text at the end of a speach sentence and >> the J sentence at the end of it without some separation. >> >> .;():"[]and{} are all part of both ordinary speach as well as J and pretty >> much anything else so it is kind of hard to find a good easy way to >> separate between the two. >> >> takes the sum of items of y. >> >> Here we see it perfectly again. >> >> is it y or is it y. >> ( Now I was going to place ? after y. on last line like y.? and that just >> clarifies how difficult this is as ? is also part of J) >> >> This is pretty hard. >> >> Maybe not have J sentences not at the end and then not . there after the J >> sentence? >> >> One thing I noticed in dissect is if I do >> >> dissect 'verb noun' >> >> it does not open the verb to display. >> >> I used >> >> verb noun f. >> >> and the result from that and if it was tacit it was fine but if the result >> contained x or y the dissect did not like it even if it accepted the verb >> noun before the f. operation. >> On 5 Mar 2015 12:58, "Henry Rich" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> (I wasn't suggesting you as a first-time J user, but a first-time user of >>> dissect and its labs.) >>> >>> Do you think it would be sufficient to put () around J symbols? We did >>> that in some places but not all. What about for names like u, v, and y? >>> >>> The sentence (+/ y) takes the sum of items of (y). >>> >>> -or- >>> >>> The sentence ((+/ y)) takes the sum of items of ((y)). >>> >>> -or- >>> >>> The sentence {+/y} takes the sum of items of {y}. >>> >>> -or- >>> >>> The sentence >>> >>> +/y >>> >>> takes the sum of items of y. >>> >>> (This last form doesn't work when the J words are at the beginning or end >>> of the sentence) >>> >>> Henry Rich >>> >>> On 3/5/2015 5:40 AM, Björn Helgason wrote: >>> >>> Wellll... >>>> >>>> I am not sure how well I qualify as a first time user. >>>> I do try to put my eyes on issues for newcomers. >>>> >>>> As always J symbols can not well mix with ordinary speach so one thing >>>> to >>>> note is to not place J sentences nor parts there of in a line with >>>> something else. >>>> >>>> . after a J sentence can change the J sentences meaning and at least >>>> confuse the newcomer even if the . is preceded by a space. >>>> >>>> ) can also be a problem. >>>> >>>> I had an older version of the lab and there the line wrap caused some >>>> confusion because the 2) item came at the end of a line and looked like >>>> it >>>> belonged to the J sentence. >>>> >>>> In general I think the howering texts are absolutely wonderful and >>>> explain >>>> the dissects nicely. >>>> >>>> The colouring is also great! >>>> >>>> This lab has brought a whole new level of ease to I would rather say to >>>> people who have made their way into J after taking the first steps >>>> rather >>>> than newcomers. >>>> >>>> It makes sence to glance at least through J for C programmers first read >>>> the labs and then read J for C again. >>>> >>>> As for my self I enjoyed stepping through the labs and I like all the >>>> multiple options and visualization it brings. >>>> >>>> I can not believe the amount of work, patience and care that has been >>>> put >>>> into this and I can not wait to take a peek behind the code used to do >>>> this >>>> magic. >>>> On 4 Mar 2015 23:21, "Henry Rich" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> If you're going to go through the labs in detail, we would much >>>> >>>>> appreciate >>>>> any comments you have about how they can be made easier for a >>>>> first-time >>>>> user. >>>>> >>>>> Also, use Package Manager every now and again to check for a new >>>>> version >>>>> - >>>>> we are adding sections and fixing wording. >>>>> >>>>> Henry Rich >>>>> >>>>> On 3/4/2015 9:26 AM, Björn Helgason wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I like this dissect addon and labs. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> At the end of dissect II lab I sometimes get stack error trying to >>>>>> play >>>>>> with the debug >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dissect lab II >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ── ((7) 11 of 11) Assignment statements ───────────────────── >>>>>> >>>>>> Did you notice anything unusual in the Dissect displays as >>>>>> >>>>>> you were single-stepping through the program? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> When Dissect is called from the debugger, assignment >>>>>> >>>>>> statements are ignored. The Dissect display is informational >>>>>> >>>>>> only. The dissected line will be executed when the program >>>>>> >>>>>> resumes. Therefore, side-effects such as assignments should >>>>>> >>>>>> be avoided. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Side-effects in verbs called by your sentence cannot be >>>>>> >>>>>> avoided; you should avoid dissecting lines that have >>>>>> >>>>>> side-effects. >>>>>> >>>>>> ) >>>>>> >>>>>> |stack error: run1 >>>>>> >>>>>> |[-1] >>>>>> >>>>>> |stack error >>>>>> >>>>>> |stack error >>>>>> >>>>>> |stack error >>>>>> >>>>>> |stack error >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If I ignore the steps etc in debug the lab finishes fine. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It looks like debug is getting better but it is not quite failfree for >>>>>> ignorant people like me. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This dissect stuff will keep me busy for a while I guess I have to run >>>>>> the >>>>>> labs over a few times. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I am pretty sure it will help a lot of people understand J execution >>>>>> better. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It is quite nice to get to study the examples more slowly than just to >>>>>> quickly glance through the whole thing. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It is easy to miss some of the features. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope I will be better at managing the debug now. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2015-03-03 9:12 GMT+00:00 Björn Helgason <[email protected]>: >>>>>> >>>>>> This is great!! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I put a fairly complicated sentence with a hook into dissect and the >>>>>>> display is nice and then the explanation on pointing at elemnents >>>>>>> quite >>>>>>> inomative andgood >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Have not had time to go through the labs yet but intending to >>>>>>> shortly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Look forward testing/using this and finally getting a good debug in >>>>>>> J I >>>>>>> can use and understand. >>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2015 01:13, "Henry Rich" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Version 3.7 of the Dissect addon is released, for j6.02 and >>>>>>> J8.03+. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dissect aims to be the easiest-to-use and most complete tool for >>>>>>>> learning >>>>>>>> J and debugging J sentences, and I think this version is a big step >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> direction. Check it out if you haven't yet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This release has: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * Tutorial labs to help you learn dissect (thanks to David Steele >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> writing these). If you're not a J guru, you might learn some J too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * Built-in help, with tooltips for all the display components, so >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> hover over blocks and see what they mean. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * Integration into the J8 debugger so that you can press a button to >>>>>>>> dissect the sentence the debugger has stopped on. There's also an >>>>>>>> Autodissect Mode so that as you step through a verb, every sentence >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> dissected automatically before it is executed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> IMPORTANT: When you get the new debug/dissect from Package Manager, >>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>> sure you also get the latest versions of labs/labs, ide/qt, and the >>>>>>>> Base >>>>>>>> Library. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Labs will run on J6.02, they're just not released for that >>>>>>>> platform, >>>>>>>> so if you're still on 6.02 you can download them on J8.03 and copy >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> Labs directory. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Henry Rich >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>> ---------- >>>>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/ >>>>>>>> forums.htm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> ---------- >>>>>> >>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/ >>>>> forums.htm >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> ---------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> ---------- >>>> >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
