Sorry; I did digress from multiple assignment.

Louis

> On 19 Jul 2017, at 09:31, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> I believe that this discussion was about something different.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> Raul
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Louis de Forcrand <[email protected]> wrote:
>> K supports first-class verbs; one can make an array of verbs, index one out, 
>> and apply it to something using the same syntax as for normal function 
>> application.
>> This is feasable in J, but only by using a special "apply" verb (perhaps 
>> gurus know another way?).
>> Not trying to go full tacit,
>> 
>> apply=: 4 : 0
>> x`:6 y
>> )
>> 
>> for example.
>> 
>> While this is more clunky, we must remember that:
>> 1) K function application looks like this:
>> user_defined_function[arg1;arg2;arg3;etc.]
>> 2) K does not support tacit programming like J does. More specifically it 
>> does not support trains. J would not be able to do this if there were no 
>> noun / function / operator hierarchy:
>> f ; g
>> would that be a list of f and g or the train as we know it? The hierarchy 
>> allows paren-free parsing rules and infix as well:
>> f @ g instead of @[f;g]
>> 
>> All in all, clunky first-class verbs are a price I am (and most Jers I 
>> assume are) willing to pay in order to get trains. Like you say, a little 
>> inconsistency can be very practical.
>> 
>> Louis
>> 
>>> On 18 Jul 2017, at 20:23, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Specifically, what you call "first class verbs" are, according to the
>>> dictionary, supposed to be trains.
>>> 
>>> That this glitch seems useful says something, I think, about the value
>>> of inconsistency.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Raul
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Jose Mario Quintana
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Louis, call me Pepe (which is the nickname for Jose); that is how friends
>>>> call me.
>>>> 
>>>> Even if first-class verbs are not in compliance with the J Dictionary,
>>>> official interpreters allow them but one has to wrestle with the
>>>> interpreters.  Using first-class verbs, one can operate on verbs [0] in a
>>>> similar way one can operate on nouns [1].  Jx extensions make their use
>>>> more pleasant and goes beyond first-class verbs; Jx also facilitates to
>>>> pass verbs, adverbs and conjunctions to verbs, adverbs and conjunctions to
>>>> produce verbs, adverbs and conjunctions.
>>>> 
>>>> [0] Tacit (unorthodox) version
>>>>   https://rosettacode.org/wiki/First-class_functions#Tacit_.
>>>> 28unorthodox.29_version
>>>> [1] Tacit (unorthodox) version
>>>>   https://rosettacode.org/wiki/First-class_functions/Use_
>>>> numbers_analogously#Tacit_.28unorthodox.29_version
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 12:36 AM, Louis de Forcrand <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I’d guess is that by “unstable” he meant “currently being modified".
>>>>> In any case, thanks for the link Jose (what should I call you? Pepe?).
>>>>> If there was one thing I could add to J it would be better support for
>>>>> first-class verbs (arrays of verbs, passing verbs as arguments), if only
>>>>> for the beauty of it, but I know this is neither easy nor practical in
>>>>> reality.
>>>>> However trying out your new version of Jx is; I’ll take a look at it if 
>>>>> you
>>>>> release it. In the meantime I’ll look into your J701 version when I have
>>>>> the time!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Louis
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 17 Jul 2017, at 20:21, HenryRich <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Unstable?  If you have a bug in J8.06, please post it at
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/System/Interpreter/Bugs
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don't see any bugs that are new in 8.06, and plenty that are fixed
>>>>> from previous versions.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Henry Rich
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 7/17/2017 7:06 PM, Jose Mario Quintana wrote:
>>>>>>> Louis, a Jx interpreter implements extensions to the language.  It
>>>>> supports
>>>>>>> tacit programming full-heartedly and embraces first-class verbs.  There
>>>>> are
>>>>>>> publicly available patches for Jx extensions, as well as, a pre-built 32
>>>>>>> bit Windows dll and Pre-built 32 and 64 bit Linux libs at
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://www.2bestsystems.com/foundation/j/jx0/index.html
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> but it is an early version of Jx based on the J701 source.  Jx has
>>>>> evolved
>>>>>>> (e.g., the primitives =.. and =:: were added afterwards) and J's core
>>>>>>> engine has evolved rapidly as well; it has been very difficult to catch
>>>>> up.
>>>>>>> ("Be careful what you wish for.")  :)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The current unreleased version of Jx is based on the unstable official
>>>>> J806
>>>>>>> beta source and there are some relatively minor Jx glitches.  We were
>>>>>>> planning to wait for the official J806 to become stable and resolve the
>>>>> Jx
>>>>>>> glitches but I might decide instead to release a current version, as is,
>>>>>>> soon.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Louis de Forcrand <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> A lot has been said on these forums about Jx and Unbox.
>>>>>>>> They are unofficial J interpreters (with extensions to the language),
>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> they not?
>>>>>>>> Are they publicly available? I couldn't find anything about them on
>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>> except older messages in the forum archives, but then again
>>>>> unfortunately
>>>>>>>> this language's name makes it sometimes hard to look up on the web.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>> Louis
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 16 Jul 2017, at 15:37, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sure, and the biggest problem here is the use of globals for
>>>>> arguments.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The verbs themselves can be pure, but all we're really doing is
>>>>>>>>> rearranging the deck chairs.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Raul
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Jose Mario Quintana
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> At least we agree, I think, on one thing " in explicit programming
>>>>>>>>>> [typically] names refer to arguments while in tacit programming they
>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>> not."  Thus, is not just a matter of tacit aesthetics, there are some
>>>>>>>>>> consequences which might be difficult to evade:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ('`u v') =: +/`*:
>>>>>>>>>> u@:v f.
>>>>>>>>>> +/@:*:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ('`u v') =:: +/`*:  NB. Jx
>>>>>>>>>> ┌───────┬──┐
>>>>>>>>>> │┌─┬───┐│*:│
>>>>>>>>>> ││/│┌─┐││  │
>>>>>>>>>> ││ ││+│││  │
>>>>>>>>>> ││ │└─┘││  │
>>>>>>>>>> │└─┴───┘│  │
>>>>>>>>>> └───────┴──┘
>>>>>>>>>> u@:v f.
>>>>>>>>>> +/@:*:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ('`u v') is +/`*: NB.
>>>>>>>>>> |domain error
>>>>>>>>>> |   (m)    =:y
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> 1 : '(m)=:y'
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So, assuming I understood the intended use of your adverb  is, I am
>>>>>>>> afraid
>>>>>>>>>> your adverb cannot be used without typical limitations.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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