Sorry; I did digress from multiple assignment. Louis
> On 19 Jul 2017, at 09:31, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > > I believe that this discussion was about something different. > > Thanks, > > -- > Raul > >> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Louis de Forcrand <[email protected]> wrote: >> K supports first-class verbs; one can make an array of verbs, index one out, >> and apply it to something using the same syntax as for normal function >> application. >> This is feasable in J, but only by using a special "apply" verb (perhaps >> gurus know another way?). >> Not trying to go full tacit, >> >> apply=: 4 : 0 >> x`:6 y >> ) >> >> for example. >> >> While this is more clunky, we must remember that: >> 1) K function application looks like this: >> user_defined_function[arg1;arg2;arg3;etc.] >> 2) K does not support tacit programming like J does. More specifically it >> does not support trains. J would not be able to do this if there were no >> noun / function / operator hierarchy: >> f ; g >> would that be a list of f and g or the train as we know it? The hierarchy >> allows paren-free parsing rules and infix as well: >> f @ g instead of @[f;g] >> >> All in all, clunky first-class verbs are a price I am (and most Jers I >> assume are) willing to pay in order to get trains. Like you say, a little >> inconsistency can be very practical. >> >> Louis >> >>> On 18 Jul 2017, at 20:23, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Specifically, what you call "first class verbs" are, according to the >>> dictionary, supposed to be trains. >>> >>> That this glitch seems useful says something, I think, about the value >>> of inconsistency. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> -- >>> Raul >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Jose Mario Quintana >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Louis, call me Pepe (which is the nickname for Jose); that is how friends >>>> call me. >>>> >>>> Even if first-class verbs are not in compliance with the J Dictionary, >>>> official interpreters allow them but one has to wrestle with the >>>> interpreters. Using first-class verbs, one can operate on verbs [0] in a >>>> similar way one can operate on nouns [1]. Jx extensions make their use >>>> more pleasant and goes beyond first-class verbs; Jx also facilitates to >>>> pass verbs, adverbs and conjunctions to verbs, adverbs and conjunctions to >>>> produce verbs, adverbs and conjunctions. >>>> >>>> [0] Tacit (unorthodox) version >>>> https://rosettacode.org/wiki/First-class_functions#Tacit_. >>>> 28unorthodox.29_version >>>> [1] Tacit (unorthodox) version >>>> https://rosettacode.org/wiki/First-class_functions/Use_ >>>> numbers_analogously#Tacit_.28unorthodox.29_version >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 12:36 AM, Louis de Forcrand <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I’d guess is that by “unstable” he meant “currently being modified". >>>>> In any case, thanks for the link Jose (what should I call you? Pepe?). >>>>> If there was one thing I could add to J it would be better support for >>>>> first-class verbs (arrays of verbs, passing verbs as arguments), if only >>>>> for the beauty of it, but I know this is neither easy nor practical in >>>>> reality. >>>>> However trying out your new version of Jx is; I’ll take a look at it if >>>>> you >>>>> release it. In the meantime I’ll look into your J701 version when I have >>>>> the time! >>>>> >>>>> Louis >>>>> >>>>>> On 17 Jul 2017, at 20:21, HenryRich <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Unstable? If you have a bug in J8.06, please post it at >>>>>> >>>>>> http://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/System/Interpreter/Bugs >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't see any bugs that are new in 8.06, and plenty that are fixed >>>>> from previous versions. >>>>>> >>>>>> Henry Rich >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/17/2017 7:06 PM, Jose Mario Quintana wrote: >>>>>>> Louis, a Jx interpreter implements extensions to the language. It >>>>> supports >>>>>>> tacit programming full-heartedly and embraces first-class verbs. There >>>>> are >>>>>>> publicly available patches for Jx extensions, as well as, a pre-built 32 >>>>>>> bit Windows dll and Pre-built 32 and 64 bit Linux libs at >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.2bestsystems.com/foundation/j/jx0/index.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> but it is an early version of Jx based on the J701 source. Jx has >>>>> evolved >>>>>>> (e.g., the primitives =.. and =:: were added afterwards) and J's core >>>>>>> engine has evolved rapidly as well; it has been very difficult to catch >>>>> up. >>>>>>> ("Be careful what you wish for.") :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The current unreleased version of Jx is based on the unstable official >>>>> J806 >>>>>>> beta source and there are some relatively minor Jx glitches. We were >>>>>>> planning to wait for the official J806 to become stable and resolve the >>>>> Jx >>>>>>> glitches but I might decide instead to release a current version, as is, >>>>>>> soon. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Louis de Forcrand <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A lot has been said on these forums about Jx and Unbox. >>>>>>>> They are unofficial J interpreters (with extensions to the language), >>>>> are >>>>>>>> they not? >>>>>>>> Are they publicly available? I couldn't find anything about them on >>>>> Google >>>>>>>> except older messages in the forum archives, but then again >>>>> unfortunately >>>>>>>> this language's name makes it sometimes hard to look up on the web. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>> Louis >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 16 Jul 2017, at 15:37, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sure, and the biggest problem here is the use of globals for >>>>> arguments. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The verbs themselves can be pure, but all we're really doing is >>>>>>>>> rearranging the deck chairs. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Raul >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Jose Mario Quintana >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> At least we agree, I think, on one thing " in explicit programming >>>>>>>>>> [typically] names refer to arguments while in tacit programming they >>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> not." Thus, is not just a matter of tacit aesthetics, there are some >>>>>>>>>> consequences which might be difficult to evade: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ('`u v') =: +/`*: >>>>>>>>>> u@:v f. >>>>>>>>>> +/@:*: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ('`u v') =:: +/`*: NB. Jx >>>>>>>>>> ┌───────┬──┐ >>>>>>>>>> │┌─┬───┐│*:│ >>>>>>>>>> ││/│┌─┐││ │ >>>>>>>>>> ││ ││+│││ │ >>>>>>>>>> ││ │└─┘││ │ >>>>>>>>>> │└─┴───┘│ │ >>>>>>>>>> └───────┴──┘ >>>>>>>>>> u@:v f. >>>>>>>>>> +/@:*: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ('`u v') is +/`*: NB. >>>>>>>>>> |domain error >>>>>>>>>> | (m) =:y >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> 1 : '(m)=:y' >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So, assuming I understood the intended use of your adverb is, I am >>>>>>>> afraid >>>>>>>>>> your adverb cannot be used without typical limitations. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >>>>>> http://www.avg.com >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
