That also. But my point was that the "first class verb" concept being discussed was a different one from the gerund use that you were documenting.
Thanks, -- Raul On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 10:20 PM, Louis de Forcrand <[email protected]> wrote: > Sorry; I did digress from multiple assignment. > > Louis > >> On 19 Jul 2017, at 09:31, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I believe that this discussion was about something different. >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> Raul >> >>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Louis de Forcrand <[email protected]> wrote: >>> K supports first-class verbs; one can make an array of verbs, index one >>> out, and apply it to something using the same syntax as for normal function >>> application. >>> This is feasable in J, but only by using a special "apply" verb (perhaps >>> gurus know another way?). >>> Not trying to go full tacit, >>> >>> apply=: 4 : 0 >>> x`:6 y >>> ) >>> >>> for example. >>> >>> While this is more clunky, we must remember that: >>> 1) K function application looks like this: >>> user_defined_function[arg1;arg2;arg3;etc.] >>> 2) K does not support tacit programming like J does. More specifically it >>> does not support trains. J would not be able to do this if there were no >>> noun / function / operator hierarchy: >>> f ; g >>> would that be a list of f and g or the train as we know it? The hierarchy >>> allows paren-free parsing rules and infix as well: >>> f @ g instead of @[f;g] >>> >>> All in all, clunky first-class verbs are a price I am (and most Jers I >>> assume are) willing to pay in order to get trains. Like you say, a little >>> inconsistency can be very practical. >>> >>> Louis >>> >>>> On 18 Jul 2017, at 20:23, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Specifically, what you call "first class verbs" are, according to the >>>> dictionary, supposed to be trains. >>>> >>>> That this glitch seems useful says something, I think, about the value >>>> of inconsistency. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Raul >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Jose Mario Quintana >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Louis, call me Pepe (which is the nickname for Jose); that is how friends >>>>> call me. >>>>> >>>>> Even if first-class verbs are not in compliance with the J Dictionary, >>>>> official interpreters allow them but one has to wrestle with the >>>>> interpreters. Using first-class verbs, one can operate on verbs [0] in a >>>>> similar way one can operate on nouns [1]. Jx extensions make their use >>>>> more pleasant and goes beyond first-class verbs; Jx also facilitates to >>>>> pass verbs, adverbs and conjunctions to verbs, adverbs and conjunctions to >>>>> produce verbs, adverbs and conjunctions. >>>>> >>>>> [0] Tacit (unorthodox) version >>>>> https://rosettacode.org/wiki/First-class_functions#Tacit_. >>>>> 28unorthodox.29_version >>>>> [1] Tacit (unorthodox) version >>>>> https://rosettacode.org/wiki/First-class_functions/Use_ >>>>> numbers_analogously#Tacit_.28unorthodox.29_version >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 12:36 AM, Louis de Forcrand <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I’d guess is that by “unstable” he meant “currently being modified". >>>>>> In any case, thanks for the link Jose (what should I call you? Pepe?). >>>>>> If there was one thing I could add to J it would be better support for >>>>>> first-class verbs (arrays of verbs, passing verbs as arguments), if only >>>>>> for the beauty of it, but I know this is neither easy nor practical in >>>>>> reality. >>>>>> However trying out your new version of Jx is; I’ll take a look at it if >>>>>> you >>>>>> release it. In the meantime I’ll look into your J701 version when I have >>>>>> the time! >>>>>> >>>>>> Louis >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 17 Jul 2017, at 20:21, HenryRich <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unstable? If you have a bug in J8.06, please post it at >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/System/Interpreter/Bugs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't see any bugs that are new in 8.06, and plenty that are fixed >>>>>> from previous versions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Henry Rich >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/17/2017 7:06 PM, Jose Mario Quintana wrote: >>>>>>>> Louis, a Jx interpreter implements extensions to the language. It >>>>>> supports >>>>>>>> tacit programming full-heartedly and embraces first-class verbs. There >>>>>> are >>>>>>>> publicly available patches for Jx extensions, as well as, a pre-built >>>>>>>> 32 >>>>>>>> bit Windows dll and Pre-built 32 and 64 bit Linux libs at >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.2bestsystems.com/foundation/j/jx0/index.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> but it is an early version of Jx based on the J701 source. Jx has >>>>>> evolved >>>>>>>> (e.g., the primitives =.. and =:: were added afterwards) and J's core >>>>>>>> engine has evolved rapidly as well; it has been very difficult to catch >>>>>> up. >>>>>>>> ("Be careful what you wish for.") :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The current unreleased version of Jx is based on the unstable official >>>>>> J806 >>>>>>>> beta source and there are some relatively minor Jx glitches. We were >>>>>>>> planning to wait for the official J806 to become stable and resolve the >>>>>> Jx >>>>>>>> glitches but I might decide instead to release a current version, as >>>>>>>> is, >>>>>>>> soon. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Louis de Forcrand <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A lot has been said on these forums about Jx and Unbox. >>>>>>>>> They are unofficial J interpreters (with extensions to the language), >>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> they not? >>>>>>>>> Are they publicly available? I couldn't find anything about them on >>>>>> Google >>>>>>>>> except older messages in the forum archives, but then again >>>>>> unfortunately >>>>>>>>> this language's name makes it sometimes hard to look up on the web. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> Louis >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 16 Jul 2017, at 15:37, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sure, and the biggest problem here is the use of globals for >>>>>> arguments. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The verbs themselves can be pure, but all we're really doing is >>>>>>>>>> rearranging the deck chairs. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Raul >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Jose Mario Quintana >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> At least we agree, I think, on one thing " in explicit programming >>>>>>>>>>> [typically] names refer to arguments while in tacit programming they >>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> not." Thus, is not just a matter of tacit aesthetics, there are >>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>> consequences which might be difficult to evade: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ('`u v') =: +/`*: >>>>>>>>>>> u@:v f. >>>>>>>>>>> +/@:*: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ('`u v') =:: +/`*: NB. Jx >>>>>>>>>>> ┌───────┬──┐ >>>>>>>>>>> │┌─┬───┐│*:│ >>>>>>>>>>> ││/│┌─┐││ │ >>>>>>>>>>> ││ ││+│││ │ >>>>>>>>>>> ││ │└─┘││ │ >>>>>>>>>>> │└─┴───┘│ │ >>>>>>>>>>> └───────┴──┘ >>>>>>>>>>> u@:v f. >>>>>>>>>>> +/@:*: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ('`u v') is +/`*: NB. >>>>>>>>>>> |domain error >>>>>>>>>>> | (m) =:y >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> 1 : '(m)=:y' >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So, assuming I understood the intended use of your adverb is, I am >>>>>>>>> afraid >>>>>>>>>>> your adverb cannot be used without typical limitations. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >>>>>>> http://www.avg.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
