I disagree: most people new to J will find tacit programming impenetrable. Providing an easy path seems like the least we can do.
As a new member told us at NYCJUG last week, he finds that the introductory materials for J "start you out in the weeds", i.e. not very accessible. On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Henry Rich <henryhr...@nc.rr.com> wrote: > Agreed. > > Henry Rich > > On 3/19/2012 9:05 AM, Dan Bron wrote: >> Though not my usual position on J development, I'd support decommissioning >> 13 : . >> >> I see its function as more appropriate to a standard library than a >> primitive. For one thing, libraries are easier to change than primitives, >> and therefore more amenable to user feedback. >> >> For another, I see 13 : 's role as primarily pedagogical, and the script >> could include additional teaching material that a primitive cannot. Also, I >> think using a script would discourage inappropriate (ab)use of the >> transformation, like blindly trusting it, or believing it has a role outside >> of learning how to write tacit verbs. >> >> -Dan >> >> PS: A note on usage; if we want an adverb to convert a (quoted) noun phrase >> to a tacit verb, then we only need to say 13 : . There is no need for >> curry, as in 13& : , and in fact that phrase is a grammatical (syntax) >> error. Currying is only needed to bind a noun to a verb. Conjunctions like >> : have binding power already (in fact, that's why& is a conjunction). >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: programming-boun...@jsoftware.com >> [mailto:programming-boun...@jsoftware.com] On Behalf Of Devon McCormick >> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 2:07 PM >> To: Programming forum >> Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] why=: 13 :'y*y*y' >> >> It's not a good advertisement for J when something so simple is so >> clearly wrong. I would certainly rank fixing an obvious bug over, >> say, a performance improvement in a little-used feature like look-up >> of symbolic names. >> >> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Tracy Harms<kalei...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> To clarify, I do think 13&: could be improved. I think your examples can >>> help with that. I don't find flaws in this modifier very interesting among >>> possible improvement efforts. >>> On Mar 17, 2012 3:45 AM, "Linda Alvord"<lindaalv...@verizon.net> wrote: >>> >>>> David Ward Lambert pointed out the known pitfall that occurs using : 13 : >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Would these examples help in correcting the problem? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> why=: 13 :'y+y' NB. wrong >>>> >>>> why >>>> >>>> + >>>> >>>> why 3 >>>> >>>> 3 >>>> >>>> why=: 13 :'y-y' NB. right >>>> >>>> why >>>> >>>> -~ >>>> >>>> why 3 >>>> >>>> 0 >>>> >>>> why=: 13 :'y*y' NB. wrong >>>> >>>> why >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> why 3 >>>> >>>> 1 >>>> >>>> why=: 13 :'y%y' NB. right >>>> >>>> why >>>> >>>> %~ >>>> >>>> why 3 >>>> >>>> 1 >>>> >>>> why=: 13 :'y+y+y' NB. wrong >>>> >>>> why >>>> >>>> ] + + >>>> >>>> why 3 >>>> >>>> 6 >>>> >>>> why=: 13 :'y-y-y' NB. right >>>> >>>> why >>>> >>>> ] - -~ >>>> >>>> why 3 >>>> >>>> 3 >>>> >>>> why=: 13 :'y*y*y' NB. wrong >>>> >>>> why >>>> >>>> ] * * >>>> >>>> why 3 >>>> >>>> 3 >>>> >>>> why=: 13 :'y%y%y' NB. right >>>> >>>> why >>>> >>>> ] % %~ >>>> >>>> why 3 >>>> >>>> 3 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Linda >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm -- Devon McCormick, CFA ^me^ at acm. org is my preferred e-mail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm