That's a *very* interesting read Tim - great find! What do you mean by an "incremental transition"? Copying code over to the rewrite or refactoring the current code enough so that it's much easier to copy to a new "setup".
On a side note, here's an email from Ryan that covers his thoughts about doing a rewrite / port: I've been watching the thread but holding back my opinion for now so that everyone else can express their voice. I would re-iterate your reference to the email regarding the Road Map that I wrote awhile back, many of my thoughts about this are expressed there - albeit interspersed in that discussion and not directly addressing this question. (Side note, several other archive options have be added for the mailing lists and will slowly be backfilled) In general, I agree that there are some fairly major/radical changes that I would like to make to the underlying framework (mostly file/folder structure) and have considered rewriting/porting PP to another framework quite extensively. Many of you know that I also work with Drupal, so on numerous occasions the idea of porting PP to use the Drupal framework has been considered (and other frameworks/systems) Also in general, I am very keen on the idea of not re-inventing the wheel just "because". Which is why the idea of building on top of other frameworks is very attractive at first glance - which includes building on top of the current framework. At this point, I try to assess the decision using a few questions: 1) What does this gain/provide us with? or what problem does this solve? 2) What does this restrict or lose us? also, What does this cost? 3) Are there any other ways of achieving this? and their related merits. 4) Is this in the best interest of the community/project? and is this what the community wants? At this point, I think the my opinions in the roadmap represent the conclusions I have come to from my own answers to these questions. However, I think this thread could be really useful if we explored the answers to at least the first 3 questions. After some more discussion, I can add my specific take on these answers if it is still useful. Hope that helps, Ryan Cross Timothée Boucher wrote: > I figure this article might be of interest in the current discussion: > http://www.1729.com/blog/EconomicsOfTestingUglyCode.html > > It won't bring an answer but it's about the ugliness of code source > vs. its value, and why it gets harder to refactor. > > Is there any way to do an incremental transition to add another > framework? I suppose not really. It would for sure add to the ugliness > of the code pretty badly :) > > Tim > > > > > On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Jeremy Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > > The whole problem with PP right now is that its ALL 3rd party code > because the person who wrote it is nowhere around and would not help > or explain anything if we asked. > > At least if PP was written in some framework we could ask for help in > the irc rooms/mailing lists/forums of the framework and get advice. > Right now it runs on a particularly complicated and unsuccessfully > documented framework that even Illija the original author isn't using > (he rewrote it all for aC 1.0). > > Of course regardless of the framework, PP does run right now, unlike a > rewrite, so i don't have an opinion on whether to rewrite (i'm also > just a spectator ;) > > jer > > On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 5:12 PM, Andy Postnikov > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > > IMO current PP framework is good but need more flexibility in > > themization and event|hook|plugin area > > > > Using of CI ZF or any will gear you 3rd party code and as result > work breakdown! > > > > 2008/7/29 Alex Mayhew <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>: > >> I'd just like to clarify on what I said yesterday - What I > meant to say was > >> that I don't think CodeIgniter is suitable for this project > without a lot of > >> modifications. > >> Also, I realised that this - > >> > >> I also don't think we should use CodeIgniter because EE will be > using > >> it. > >> > >> may sound ambiguous. What I meant was, I don't think we should use > >> CodeIgniter "because EE 2.0 uses it", imo we should make PP a > standalone > >> app. > >> > >> Today I've been looking at the CodeIgniter & Kohana source code > in more > >> depth, and I've realised it's going to take a heck of a lot of > time just to > >> get to where these frameworks are now. It may be a better idea > to use an > >> existing framework after all. > >> > >> Alex > >> > >> George McGinley Smith wrote: > >> > >> What's wrong with CI for PP? It's a solid actively developed > MVC framework. > >> What are your reservations? > >> > >> On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Alex Mayhew > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Ryan's just reminded me of a post he made a while ago about > PP's roadmap > >>> > >>> > > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=e4be0af40806120904g31798797g7358dd3a0a60f57b%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=projectpier-development > > <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=e4be0af40806120904g31798797g7358dd3a0a60f57b%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=projectpier-development> > >>> > >>> He's set a lot of good targets in that email, however I feel > that it > >>> might be easier for us to rewrite the core and complete the > targets as > >>> we go along instead of hacking the current core. > >>> > >>> @George, I think it'd be better if we made our own framework > for PP, > >>> instead of marketing it as a 'CodeIgniter based app / EE addon'. > >>> CodeIgniter is a good framework, however it's not really > suitable for PP > >>> imo. > >>> > >>> > >>> > The fact that this is aC plus the bug fixes and enhancements > was what > >>> > made me want to use it. It is a simple and effective > manager, easy to > >>> > use and really gets the job done, I would add a few little > extras, > >>> > like some already mentioned on the forums and this list, but > would > >>> > keep the thing that made aC a great software, it's simplicity. > >>> > > >>> I'm sure that everyone who uses PP agrees with you on this point. > >>> > What would this rewrite bring us? Or better yet, in what way > would > >>> > this rewrite be done, what are the main focus of the work? Will > >>> > compatibility with aC's database be kept or any conversion > tool be > >>> > added? > >>> > > >>> The main aim of the rewrite would be to refactor and improve the > >>> codebase, as well as including some needed / highly requested > features > >>> > My fear is that the software I started to use, and have been > >>> > recommending, will be dropped, and no upgrade will be possible. > >>> > > >>> It would be crazy if an upgrade path for the 0.8.* version was not > >>> created :P > >>> > Like Timothée said, it's important to know where the > project's going > >>> > and what will happen to the current version and all it's users > >>> > > >>> > That said, and having looked at the current code, bugs count > and type, > >>> > I'm all for a rewrite. > >>> > > >>> :) > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Usually something witty would go here, but as I'm the sort of > guy who > >>> doesn't have a catch phrase I'm afraid this is nothing but > more than > >>> ultra boring rubbish - which you've been suckered into reading :P > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >>> Checked by AVG. > >>> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.6/1574 - Release > Date: 25/07/2008 > >>> 16:27 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > >>> challenge > >>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & > win great > >>> prizes > >>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere > in the > >>> world > >>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > <http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Projectpier-development mailing list > >>> [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/projectpier-development > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Kind regards, > >> > >> George McGinley Smith > >> > >> http://gsgd.co.uk > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG. > >> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.6/1576 - Release Date: > 27/07/2008 > >> 16:16 > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move > Developer's challenge > >> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & > win great > >> prizes > >> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere > in the world > >> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > <http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Projectpier-development mailing list > >> [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/projectpier-development > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Usually something witty would go here, but as I'm the sort of > guy who > >> doesn't have a catch phrase I'm afraid this is nothing but more > than ultra > >> boring rubbish - which you've been suckered into reading :P > >> > >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >> Checked by AVG. > >> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.6/1576 - Release Date: > 27/07/2008 > >> 16:16 > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move > Developer's challenge > >> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & > win great > >> prizes > >> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere > in the world > >> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > <http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Projectpier-development mailing list > >> [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/projectpier-development > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move > Developer's challenge > > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win > great prizes > > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere > in the world > > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > <http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/> > > _______________________________________________ > > Projectpier-development mailing list > > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/projectpier-development > > > > > > -- > Jeremy Clarke > Code and Design | globalvoicesonline.org > <http://globalvoicesonline.org> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win > great prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in > the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > <http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/> > _______________________________________________ > Projectpier-development mailing list > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/projectpier-development > > > �������wb��b�)ܢh��g��� ���[�FU�슉��]��X���ڵ�ڱ�Ӟ�מ�E�^jǃj��; > �m4�^���ke=== > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Projectpier-development mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/projectpier-development > -- Usually something witty would go here, but as I'm the sort of guy who doesn't have a catch phrase I'm afraid this is nothing but more than ultra boring rubbish - which you've been suckered into reading :P No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 - Release Date: 01/08/2008 06:39 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ _______________________________________________ Projectpier-development mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/projectpier-development
