opini historian bukan fakta sejarah. fosil, piramid, mumi, skrip, cetakan telapak kaki raja purnawarman, yg semuanya itu sudah melalui proses validasi dari pihak yg netral tentunya, adalah fakta sejarah.
pernah nonton natgeo? nah di sono banyak tayangan ttg usaha mengungkap fakta sejarah ttg yesus. mulai dari penggalian kuburan yesus yg didokumentasikan oleh james cameron, hingga penyelidikan ttg keaslian kain kafan turin. jika usaha2 di atas menghasilkan kesimpulan yg valid, maka itulah yg namanya fakta sejarah. mengapa para ilmuwan itu rela mengeluarkan dana dan usaha untuk mencari bukti fisik? karena mereka ilmuwan, bukan penginjil kayak elu dan nub, yg percaya begitu saja "apa kata orang", hanya karena oranbg itu "historian terkenal". --- In [email protected], Gabriella Rantau wrote: > > Turut nimbrung. Selain catatan dari para murid Yesus termasuk yg kemudian > dikenal dg Injil Lukas, Injil Matius, Injil Markus, Injil Yohanes juga > terdpat catatan oleh historian yg bukan Kristen mengenai penyaliban Yesus di > Yerusalem. Berikut ini aku copy and paste 3 of such accunts. > > Jewish hostorian > Falius Josephus >  > The extant manuscripts of the writings of the 1st century Romano-Jewish > historian Flavius > Josephus include references to Jesus and the origins of Christianity.[1][2] > Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, written around > 93â"94 AD, includes two references to Jesus in Books 18 and 20 and a > reference > to John the Baptist in Book 18 >  > Arabic and Syriac Josephus > In 1971, > a 10th century Arabic version of the Testimonium due to Agapius of Hierapolis > was brought to light by Shlomo > Pines who also discovered a 12th century Syriac version of Josephus by > Michael the Syrian.[69][70][71] These additional manuscript sources of the > Testimonium have furnished > additional ways to evaluate Josephus' mention of Jesus in the Antiquities, > principally through a close textual comparison between the Arabic, Syriac and > Greek versions to the Testimonium.[13][72] >  > The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by > Pontius > Pilate and the existence of early > Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, > chapter 44.[1] > The context of the passage is the six-day Great Fire of Rome that burned much > of the city > in AD 64 during the reign of Roman Emperor Nero.[2] The passage is one of the > earliest non-Christian references to the origin of Christianity, the > execution of > Christ described in the Canonical gospels, and the presence and persecution > of Christians in 1st-century Rome.[3][4] > Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to the execution of Jesus by > Pontius > Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent > Roman source.[5][6][7] Eddy and Boyd state that it is now "firmly > established" that Tacitus > provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.[8] >  > Apakah accounts di atas anda anggap sbg fakta sejarah atau sekedar dongeng > adalah sepenuhnya hak anda. > > Gabriella > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: johny_indon > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2013 9:12 AM > Subject: [proletar] Re: Muslim wajib taat kepada Yesus?!. > > >  > > > berarti tidak ada itu yg namanya "fakta sejarah" seperti > yg dikibulkan si nub. > > selesai. > > --- In [email protected], Gabriella Rantau wrote: > > > > Setau aku tidak ada artifac tsb. Penyaliban disebut a.l. oleh seorang > > historian pd waktu itu. Dia bukan seorang Kristen. Please click > > 'non-Christian record of Jesus' crucifixion' > > > > Gabriella > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: ajeg > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2013 8:37 AMfifix > > Subject: Re: [proletar] Muslim wajib taat kepada Yesus?!. > > > > > > à> > > > Ada di museum mana barang bukti salib itu sekarang? > > > > --- "Nub" wrote: > > > > > Yang goblok elu. > > > Lu bilang kalau memang Yesus mati dikayu salib fakta sejarah, > > > kenapa islam percaya Yesus tidak mati tapi diangkat? > > > Soalnya islam pake quran sebagai bukti sejarah yg tidak > > > terbantahkan. Sedangkan gw ngomong bukan sekedar make Alkitab, tapi > > > seluruh sejarahwan dari abad 1-3 semua menuliskan kalo Yesus mati > > > dikayu salib. > > > Ini fakta sejarah bodoh, bukan pake iman doang. > > > > > > > > > --- "suryana" wrote: > > > > > > > Dasar goblok.......bila memang benar, mengapa Islam mempercayai > > > > bahwa Isa diangkat sedang yg disalib yg dipersamakan dengan Isa. > > > > Simpang siur karena sejarah mana yg dipercaya, sudah menjadi > > > > polemik ratusan tahun. > > > > > > > > Aku sebagai Katholik percaya Yesus disalib, dan bukan berarti mau > > > > memaksakan iman aku kepada orang lain. > > > > > > > > Belegug bin goblok siah mah. > > > > > > > > Untung si binatang purba bersel satu amuba juspig sudah > > > > ateis.....bisa bisa dibilang Yesus bukan disalib, melainkan mati > > > > dipelukan juspig > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Nub" > > > > > > > > > LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL > > > > > > > > > > Yesus mati dikayu salib itu bukti sejarahnya simpang siur? > > > > > your level of stupidity never cease to amaze me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Post message: [email protected] Subscribe : [email protected] Unsubscribe : [email protected] List owner : [email protected] Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/Yahoo! 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