terimakasih meski pembelaan itu gak membuat lebih baik. tetap saja ada yg mau babi dan nolak misalya, atau semahyang mirip yesus ada yg cuma nyanyi. ada yg eda antara kitab buata katolik da diluar itu.
jd gak ada yg contek, gak mungki itu. sampai sekarag aja msh semrawut. kitab yg gak konsisten itu gak mungkin di contek. gak usah mimpi. kita yahudi asli dan injil asli itu eggak ada, gak pernah ada. semua sudah dikumpulin dari tulisan eggak jelas, asal sudah tua saja. tidak selalu yg ditemukan leih tua itu asli...kalau mau tahu. agama itu bukan ttg lebih kaya atau lebih mapan. agama jg bukan ttg sciece. kalau itu pikiramu buarkan saja universitas ganti dg semiari. faham... kalau jadi pedeta hidupya mapan kr perpuluhan, mmg iya. nyatanya di indonesia banyak pengin jadi pendeta kr hidup terjamin. --- On Sat, 6/8/13, Gabriella Rantau <[email protected]> wrote: > From: Gabriella Rantau <[email protected]> > > Pak Ballast,sekedar berbagi info. > > 1. Memang ada banyak versi Alkitab / Bible tetapi perbedaan > yg ada hanya bertalian dengan bahasanya. Misalnya, King > James Bible bahasanya sudah archaic (kuno) sehingga kurang > difahami oleh jemaat masa kini. Tidak ada perbedaan isi atau > messaage dari kitab2 dan ayat2 Bible. > > 2. Mnrt anda tidak logis kalau ada orang yg menyontek > Perjanjian Lama dan Perjanjian Baru. Kenyataan di lapangan > banyak ayat2 Al Qur'an yg sangat mirip dengan ayat2 > Alkitab. Mungkin saja ini karena kebetulan. Yg jelas > Perjanjian Lama itu sudah dikenal, ditulis, diajarkan lebih > dari 2,000 tahun sebelum nuzul Al Qur'an. Perjanjian > Baru sudah selesai ditulis pada tahun 70 Masehi jadi lebih > dari 600 tahun sebelum nuzul Qur'an. > > 3.Salah satu contoh similarity / persamaan kita lihat dari > Doa Yahudi (P.L.) yg namanya Ha Patach dengan Surat Al > Fatiha. (Dua hari yg lalu aku kirim Ha Patach tsb.) > > 4. Anda benar praktis tidak ada orang Kristen yg hafal ayat2 > Alkitab. Perlu kita pertanyakan apakah seseorang yg hafal > ayat2 sebuah kitab suci, otomatis menjadi orang yg baik? > Lebih2 kalau kita ingat bhw sebagian besar umat Islam tidak > mengerti Bahasa Arab. Ini artinya bhw sebagian besar umat > Islam sebenarnya tidak mengerti apa yg mereka ikrarkan. > > 5. Mungkin ada orang2 yg merasa puas kalau merussak, > merobek2 Alkitab (for that matter Al Qur'an dsb.) Bagi > umat Kristiani Alkitab itu adalah sekedar buku, karenanya > tidak mungkin suci atau dapat membawa pahala. Yg sangat > penting adalah ajaran yg terkandung dalam Bible tsb. Kalau > orang mengamalkan ajaran yg mulia, maka orang tsb berkenan > kpd Tuhan. > > 6. Kalau anda jujur penganut agama mana yg (i) Kehidupannya > secara umum tidak mapan, tidak sejahtera? (ii) Umat beragama > mana yg sepanjang sejarah dan khususnya dlm sejak abad ke-15 > ketinggalan kemajuan dlm banyak bidang: science, health, > politic, social dsb? (iii) Umat mana yg banyak trerlibat dlm > perseteruan, pembunuhan, kejahatan, anti sosial dan tindak > terorisme? - bahkan di antara umat yg seagama? (iv) Umat > beragama mana yg masih melakukan penindasan, pelecehan, thdp > kaum perempuan? > > > > Wasalam > > > > Gabriella > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Ballast Yo <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2013 4:03 PM > > Subject: Re: R: [proletar] Komposisi Quran > > > > > > > > hal yg jauh dari logika kalau ada suatu kitab mau mencontoh > bibel. > > tahu kenapa? > > enggak kan? > > itu krn bibel sendiri selalu direvisi. Orang kristen aja > enggak ada yg hapal kok. lagian ngapain dihapalin, di turki > sudah ketemu injil yg lebih sesuai. > > dulu..ada orang israel/yahudi dikirimi bibel malah disobek2. > itu tandanya bhw bibel itu membuat pengaruh buruk thd bgs > yahudi dan juga bagi bangsa2 di dunia. faham? > > > > --- On Sat, 6/8/13, SA <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > From: SA <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > Kelemahan Islam adalah memplagiat dua Kitab Suci > > > terdahulu,ingin membuat Kitab sendiri yang > sempurna,ternyata > > > semakin kelihatan jejak2 plagiatnya,semakin banyak > ditemukan > > > kontradiksi. > > > > > > Ketegangan soal Kitab Suci antar ketiga agama ini akan > > > hilang atau berkurang, jika umat Islam menjadikan > quran > > > sebagai Kitab Suci mereka tetapi digandeng dengan > Taurat > > > dan Alkitab sebagai Kitab2 pendahulu, kurang lebih > sama > > > seperti umat Kristiani mengadopsi Taurat sebagai > Perjanjian > > > Lama. > > > > > > Jadi komposisi quran seharusnya: Perjanjian Lama, > Perjanjian > > > Baru dan Quran sebagai satu kesatuan Kitab Suci Islam. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Sab 8/6/13, Bukan Pedanda <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bukan Pedanda <[email protected]> > > > > > > [proletar] (unknown) > > > > > > "[email protected]" > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Negara-negara di dunia kafir membangun perdamaian, mau > > > dagang aja, nggak mau main bunuh-bunuhan lagi... > > > > > > > > > > > > Sementara itu orang Islam main teror dan saling > berbunuhan > > > di Siria, Iraq, Yemen dll. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dan mereka jadikan Indoneisa sebagai sarang teroris. > > > > > > > > > > > > Islam itu, saya bilang dan saya ulang adalah > malapetaka > > > untuk ummat manusia, artinya juga malapetakan untuk > orang > > > Islam sendiri. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama calls for 'new model' at China summit > > > > > > > > > > > > US president and Chinese President Xi Jinping pledge to > look > > > for a new way of co-operation on a slew of disputes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last Modified: 08 Jun 2013 06:38 > > > > > > > > > > > > Al Jazeera's Rob Reynolds reports from Los Angeles > on > > > the informal talks being hailed as 'historic' > for > > > both countries > > > > > > > > > > > > The US president has said he welcomes the > "peaceful > > > > > > > > > > > > rise" of China and that, despite inevitable areas > of > > > tension, both > > > > > > > > > > > > countries want a co-operative relationship, as he and > > > Chinese President > > > > > > > > > > > > Xi Jinping began two days of meetings. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hosting Xi at a luxurious > > > > > > > > > > > > desert estate in southern California on Friday, Barack > Obama > > > said he > > > > > > > > > > > > hoped to work together with China on cybersecurity, an > issue > > > that has > > > > > > > > > > > > created friction between the two countries. > > > > > > > > > > > > Xi expressed the hope for deeper co-operation, saying > China > > > and the > > > > > > > > > > > > United States could build a new model of "big > > > country" relations. > > > > > > > > > > > > Speaking > > > > > > > > > > > > to reporters at the start of Friday's talks, Obama > said > > > he wanted > > > > > > > > > > > > to achieve a "new model of co-operation" > with > > > China - a goal many feel > > > > > > > > > > > > eluded him in his first term when dealing with former > > > Chinese president > > > > > > > > > > > > Hu Jintao. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our decision to meet so early, I think, signifies > the > > > > > > > > > > > > importance of the U.S.-China relationship. It’s > important > > > not only for > > > > > > > > > > > > the prosperity of our two countries and the security of > our > > > two > > > > > > > > > > > > countries, but it’s also important for the Asia > Pacific > > > region and > > > > > > > > > > > > important for the world," Obama said. > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama said it was in the interest of the US that China > > > continued on > > > > > > > > > > > > the path of success "because we believe that a > peaceful > > > and stable and > > > > > > > > > > > > prosperous China is not only good for Chinese but also > good > > > for the > > > > > > > > > > > > world and for the United States". > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama said as two of the world's largest economies, > the > > > US and China were aiming to have a healthy economic > > > competition. > > > > > > > > > > > > But he added that the two nations had a "whole > range of > > > challenges on which we have to cooperate". These, > Obama > > > said, include North Korea and its nuclear and missile > > > programmes, nuclear proliferation and climate > > > > > > > > > > > > change. > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama urged Xi to stop reported Chinese hacking against > > > > > > > > > > > > > the US, but his call could be overshadowed by new > > > revelations that > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama's own administration has been secretly > collecting > > > information > > > > > > > > > > > > about phone and internet use. > > > > > > > > > > > > The actions of both China and the US underscore the > vast > > > > > > > > > > > > technological powers that governments can tap to > gather > > > information > > > > > > > > > > > > covertly from individuals, companies and other > governments. > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama, seeking to keep the matter from trailing him > through > > > two days > > > > > > > > > > > > of China meetings, addressed the surveillance > programmes for > > > the first > > > > > > > > > > > > time on Friday morning. > > > > > > > > > > > > He said the efforts strike "the right > balance" > > > between security and civil liberties as the US combats > > > terrorism. > > > > > > > > > > > > "You can't have 100 percent security and then > also > > > have 100 percent > > > > > > > > > > > > privacy and zero inconvenience. We're going to have > to > > > make some choices as a society," he said during a > > > health care event in Northern > > > > > > > > > > > > California. > > > > > > > > > > > > For his part, Xi said the talks would help chart the > future > > > of China-US relations and "draw a blueprint for > this > > > relationship". > > > > > > > > > > > > He said in more than 40 years the China-US > relationship > > > "has gone through winds and rains and it made > > > historical progress". > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama, Xi and the future of US-China relations: An > interview > > > with Professor David Zweig. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our two peoples and the people elsewhere in the > world > > > have reaped huge benefits from this," Xi said. > > > > > > > > > > > > "And at present, the China-U.S. relationship has > > > reached a new > > > > > > > > > > > > historical starting point. Our two countries have vast > > > convergence of > > > > > > > > > > > > shared interests, from promoting our respective > economic > > > growth at home > > > > > > > > > > > > to ensuring the stability of the global economy." > > > > > > > > > > > > Xi said on all issues including dealing with > international > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > regional hotspot and global challenges, the two > countries > > > needed to > > > > > > > > > > > > increase exchanges and cooperation. > > > > > > > > > > > > "And under the new environment, we need to take a > close > > > look at our > > > > > > > > > > > > bilateral relationship: What kind of China-U.S. > relationship > > > do we both > > > > > > > > > > > > want?" Xi said. > > > > > > > > > > > > "What kind of cooperation can our two nations > carry out > > > for mutual > > > > > > > > > > > > benefit? And how can our two nations join together to > > > promote peace and > > > > > > > > > > > > development in the world? These are things that not > just the > > > people in > > > > > > > > > > > > our two countries are watching closely, but the whole > world > > > is also > > > > > > > > > > > > watching very closely." > > > > > > > > > > > > Xi said he looked forward to in-depth communication > with > > > Obama, > > > > > > > > > > > > adding he was confident the meeting would > "achieve > > > positive outcomes and inject fresh momentum into the > > > China-U.S. relationship". > > > > > > > > > > > > Source: > > > > > > > > > > > > Al Jazeera and agencies > ------------------------------------ Post message: [email protected] Subscribe : [email protected] Unsubscribe : [email protected] List owner : [email protected] Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/join (Yahoo! 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