Please note: Your browser has been unable to load the stylesheet that accompanies this page. The page is still readable. [Accessibility statement]
[Skip to navigation] Websites Scotsman.com websites News Sport Business The Scotsman Scotland on Sunday Edinburgh Evening News Dating Jobs Motors Property Business Finder Member Centre Web Feeds Media Pack Site Help Digital Archive 1817-1950 Photo Gallery Reader Holidays Scotsman Calendar Money Fantasy Golf Haggis Hunt Edinburgh Festivals Heritage & Culture Living Weather Webcams Search | Site map Jobs | Property | Motors | Dating | Money Log in Register now - free! Member Centre Sunday, 23rd July 2006 International ***Inggris dan Australia adalah tukang pukul AS di benua Eropa dan Aspac. AS mulai gemetar menyaksikan reaksi internasional and mempertimbangkan akibat perang gerila bila tentara Israel masuk ke Lebanon Selatan. ***Tidak aneh AS perintah Inggris keluarkan kutukan. Tidak heran si Rice akan diganti sebelum hari Natal 2006... Sun 23 Jul 2006 British attack Israeli tactics in Lebanon BRIAN BRADY WESTMINSTER EDITOR THE British government issued a fierce condemnation of Israel's bombing campaign in Lebanon last night as world leaders desperately sought a last-minute deal to avert a ground war. As Israeli tanks massed on the border and troops made sporadic raids on Lebanese villages, Foreign Office minister Kim Howells claimed Israel was not inflicting "surgical strikes" but waging war on "the entire Lebanese nation". His outburst appeared to shift the British position, which has so far been to support Israel's action while cautioning restraint. The furious round of international diplomacy, in the shadow of a return to full-scale war in the Middle East, came in advance of a visit to the region by American Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice today and an international "peace conference" in Italy on Wednesday. But Howells, who was in Beirut overseeing the evacuation of thousands of Britons and who will travel to Israel today, gave a dramatic signal that many senior government figures are in despair over the failure to bring a halt to the fighting. "I very much hope that the Americans understand what's happening to Lebanon," he said. "The destruction of the infrastructure, the death of so many children and so many people. These have not been surgical strikes. "And it's very, very difficult, I think, to understand the kind of military tactics that have been used. "You know, if they're chasing Hezbollah, then go for Hezbollah. You don't go for the entire Lebanese nation." His comments underlined growing frustration at the failure to agree a lasting ceasefire to end the conflict - and hinted at a split between the Foreign Office and Tony Blair, who has taken a more emollient line towards Israel. Downing Street furiously denied any difference of opinion last night, insisting that they were working closely with the Foreign Office to bring an end to the military exchanges and human suffering. "You can take it from me, there is a lot of activity behind the scenes and across all departments," a Downing Street spokesman said last night. "We are working towards a diplomatic solution that will protect democracy in Lebanon." Scotland on Sunday understands that American and British officials have been mounting a diplomatic offensive with Arab nations, including Syria. President George Bush also discussed the developing crisis with Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan. Rice will step up the pace today when she meets Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in Jerusalem. She will also discuss the situation with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas before travelling to Rome, where she will meet representatives of European and moderate Arab governments. The aim is to shore up the weak democratic government in Lebanon's capital, Beirut. Bush yesterday reinforced his unwavering support for Israel, repeating the country's right to defend itself in the face of guerrilla attacks from Lebanon and Gaza. "By its actions, Hezbollah has jeopardised Lebanon's tremendous advances and betrayed the Lebanese people," Bush said. Rice said she did not expect US troops to form part of a potential peacekeeping contingent in southern Lebanon. "We are looking at what kind of international assistance force makes sense, but I do not think that it is anticipated that US ground forces are expected for that force," she said. Israeli troops moved into southern Lebanon on the ground yesterday, taking control of a village and engaging Hezbollah militants by land, sea and air as part of the country's limited ground campaign. The soldiers - backed by artillery and tank fire - moved into the large Lebanese village of Maroun al-Ras and took control, military officials said. The force included Israeli tanks, bulldozers and personnel carriers that knocked down a border fence and entered the area. The equipment and about 25 soldiers raced past a UN outpost and headed into the village where other Israeli soldiers already had control. But gunfire could be heard from the village, and artillery based inside Israel also was firing on it. Up to 2,000 Israeli troops entered the area yesterday, but some later returned. Lebanese security sources said the Israeli military had made incursions of only a few hundred meters into the Maroun al-Ras and Yaroun villages. Hezbollah meanwhile fired more than 100 rockets at towns across northern Israel yesterday, injuring more than a dozen people. In Beirut, ships continued to arrive at the main port, part of a massive evacuation effort to pull out Americans and other foreigners. France, the United Nations and Red Cross demanded Israel open humanitarian corridors to allow shelter, food, water and medicine to reach an estimated half-million displace people. Responding to a US request, Israeli Defence Minister Amir Peretz said French aid would be allowed into Lebanon's port of Sidon. There was some hope on the Gaza strip, however, when militant groups agreed to stop firing missiles at Israel at midnight. The unilateral cease-fire is aimed at ending an Israeli offensive in the Gaza Strip that began on June 28 three days after militants raided an Israeli army post, killing two soldiers and capturing a third, 19-year-old Cpl Gilad Shalit. Yesterday, hundreds of marchers brought Argyle Street, in Glasgow, to a standstill by staging a sit-down protest against Israeli military action in Lebanon. Meanwhile, around 7,000 protested in London against the Israeli attacks. Related topic Middle East conflict http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=13 This article: http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1068482006 Last updated: 22-Jul-06 00:41 BST Comments Add your comment 1. Moran McMahon, Canada / 1:35am 23 Jul 2006 It's so discouraging to see so many peoplel from Britain and around the world criticizing Israel for defending itself against the Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah started this mess in the middle East and now everyone is blaiming lsrael. You either support terrorists or you reject them. Those who are criticizing Israel obviously have no understanding of what is going on in the Middle East. They are just anit-semitic. Why don't they tell Hamas and Hezbollah to stop their terrorist activities and release the captured Israeli soldiers. Report as unsuitable 2. Kent / 1:36am 23 Jul 2006 Quote: "THE British government issued a fierce condemnation of Israel's bombing campaign in Lebanon" This condemnation is dangerous and must be reconsidered. Britain should not condemn Israel for war on Terror. Israel has the right to look for and destroy these terrorists who are hiding behind civilians. Most of the Arab nations will not crush this terrorist group so Israel has do do this to defend itself. Report as unsuitable 3. Mohammed, USA / 1:47am 23 Jul 2006 britain is right in condeming israel for indiscrimanately bombing civilians.killing hundreds of innocent women/children and displacing almost 700000 civilians. nobody is questioning israels right to defend itself against terrorism but israel is commiting the same evil by targetting civilian population and infrastructure. Report as unsuitable 4. Lyndi, Coventry / 1:47am 23 Jul 2006 LISTEN TO YOUR SELVES! Of course Israel should defend itself against evil and sadistic terrorists. Are these same terrorists the children that have died? What about the mother who dies in Gaza with holes blown in her back and the flesh of her leg burned to the bone by an Israeli firebomb? Israel are attacking WHOLE NATIONS, not just terrorist groups. Imagine if Britain had bombed southern Ireland in reaction to the IRA. Ridiculous. Rethink your comments. Report as unsuitable 5. William, Denver, CO USA / 1:48am 23 Jul 2006 Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they are anti-semitic. That is kind of an extreme statement. I personally think Israel has a right to defend themselves, only as far as they have to. The point is, is this much force needed for Israels safety. We see who is destroying who. I think Israel is going above and beyond what they need to do for a safe state. I the long run I think the US, and all involved with this will pay which is to bad. Report as unsuitable 6. David, Australia / 1:50am 23 Jul 2006 Ed, Reading through the responses to this story, I have to lend my full support and I'm surprised that a U.K minister is taking a position which is the opposite to the government's. Unfortunately, world history shows that the innocent have been hurt/died from war and I pose this question. Is Israel and its people suppose to sit back and let terrorists and other governments play out their own agendas which places a threat over their head/s? It is a pity that the World can't live in peace but when agendas do clash with others then; what's the answer? The United Nations continues to be a lame-duck or lacks the will to do more. That body has peace-keepers currently in Lebanon and they too, must be frustrated in being unable to do anything. Report as unsuitable 7. Bob, U.S.A. / 1:51am 23 Jul 2006 Ironic....Hezbollah starts this war, and now there are protests against Israel. As far as I see it, a vote against Israel is a vote for Hezbollah. I'm sure that Hezbollah is happy at the protests in the Europe. In the U.S.A., we are not protesting Israel. We are protesting the murdering, rapists of Lebanon called Hezbollah and their masters in Iran. Report as unsuitable 8. Mohammed, USA / 1:52am 23 Jul 2006 britain is right in condeming israel for indiscrimanately bombing civilians.killing hundreds of innocent women/children and displacing almost 700000 civilians. nobody is questioning israels right to defend itself against terrorism but israel is commiting the same evil by targetting civilian population and infrastructure. Report as unsuitable 9. scott, Edinburgh / 1:53am 23 Jul 2006 There is no justification for Israel to continually bomb infrastructure essential to the ordinary people of Lebanon. All that is being achieved through this agressive policy is a growing support for radical organisations and an inevitable war, which - in the present climate, has the potential to send the Middle-East into complete meltdown. Targeting terrorists is one thing, but targeting an entire nation because of a minority terrorist threat is in no way justifiable, nor is it effective. It's easy to for some to conclude that comments posted on this issue are anti-semetic, but Israel's continued overkill actions towards its neighbours will only escalate this conflict - not supress it. Report as unsuitable 10. Ronny, Canada / 1:57am 23 Jul 2006 As sad as it might be to see all the destruction and death in Lebanon, one cannot and must not blame Israel. All the Israeli attacks have been on facilities that Hezbollah uses. Plus their escape routes must be plugged. It is a very sorry state; but why don't the British (my nation) chip in and help the Isarelis fight these criminals and terrorists? Even the EU refuses to make Hisbollah an outlawed organisation. Look at the amount of weapons Lebanon has allowed Hezbollah to bring into the Southern country! They blatantly resisted the UN resolutions on Hezbollah, and now they are unfortunately paying for it. If we back Israel in getting the job done this will not happen again. Report as unsuitable 11. Khal, Canada / 2:02am 23 Jul 2006 THANK-YOU BRITAIN FOR FINALLY COMING HOME. I am of mixed descent, if you will, of Scottish and Arab descent. I have been disgusted by the willingness and the cheapness of human life wrought by this destruction. Peace, peace is the only way. I was a long supporter of Israel, and I still am, but this is utter madness. What can be accomplished but rendering the country to your north an utter wasteland? It will be a breeding ground and a catalyst around the world for resentment and hatred. As those who can run away with tails between legs, the Lebonese people are being wiped off the planet. This is a misuse of power at it's lowest form. For those who argue about Hezbollah and this and that, and all the rhetoric we have endured for the last 2 weeks, go right ahead. But actions, my friend speak louder than words, and what we are witnessing is a long trail of evil, moreso surprising as it is being waged by a supposedly enlightened western-like state. Disgusting, I hope the old men and their willing comptriots are held face down in the mess of their own making. Treat people who rocket you like criminal. Process, and bring that concept to bear which the world has seem to forgotten: "Justice." Remembering that one? Before you start screaming the work "terroist," realize that the only true western progress was brought by a system of laws that punishes those who commit crimes and not collectively their friends and neighbours. What's going on in Lebanon is an afront against humanity and is about to put the light out on progress in human rights affairs on this planet for decades to come. Israel, I'm curious, why so many people in jail so many years? Why so many Palestinian dead and why now Lebanese? You're supposed to be smarter than that. Could it be that the set of laws you have for yourselves are not universal enough to extend to your human neighbours? I suspect this is the root cause, and until you and your neighbours come to understand this, there will be no peace and it must be enforced upon you. Come on world, the US and Israel are not so big that they cannot be told to stop. "Stop it. Stop it now." Report as unsuitable 12. William, Denver, CO USA / 2:02am 23 Jul 2006 Bob, not true. I am an American, I protest Israel going into a sovereign country to get a group of terrorist. Blowing us clinics, and the citizenrys main infrastructure does not help our cause with Islamic people in peace for Israel. Iran and terrorist must love this. Report as unsuitable 13. Gustav, Toronto Canada / 2:02am 23 Jul 2006 We no longer live in a world where perfect justification is justification enough for violent retribution. Peace means not taking revenge. All of you children - Bush - Israel - Ahmadinejad - grow up. Responding to the latest bullying with violent retribution just continues the cycle. Suck it up, put down your guns, and concentrate on growing your vegetables. (I'm not holding my breath.) Report as unsuitable 14. Roman, US / 2:04am 23 Jul 2006 If Israel had deliberately targeted Lebanese civilians, wouldnt the death toll exceed 10sof thousands by now? Report as unsuitable 15. Richard, Canada / 2:06am 23 Jul 2006 I'm curious why most of those who write letters condemning Israel's actions in Lebanon aren't condemning Hezbollah too. If Hezbollah released the captured soldiers and stopped firing missles at Israeli civilian centers then the pretext for the war on Lebanon would be removed, and at that stage Israel and America would very likely to resist international pressure to cease its attacks. Clearly, hezbollah is not acting in Lebanon's interest, but those of its sponsors, Iran and Syria. Funny how that doesn't seem to bother a lot of people who claim their interest is in 'peace.' Report as unsuitable 16. Richard, Canada / 2:09am 23 Jul 2006 Sorry, to clarify, Israel and America would be unable to resist international pressure to cease the attacks if Hezbollah released the captured soldiers and ceased its missle attacks. If Hezbollah truly cares about Lebanon, why don't they do that? If the posters here care about Lebanon, why aren't they insisting on that? Report as unsuitable 17. William, Denver, CO USA / 2:09am 23 Jul 2006 The problem I see is Israel is blowing us areas with lots of people to get a few terrorist. I can't justify killing 100 people for 10 terrorists. Thats the way I think most of the world is seeing this. And yes most of the world hates this. They needed to stop the bombing of northern Israel, but this getting out of control. Report as unsuitable 18. Tukuy, California, US / 2:13am 23 Jul 2006 Israel has killed hundreds of women and children. Israel has confused self-defense with ABUSE. Justice will come. God, who is the same for Christians, Muslims and Jewish, will have no mercy with assassins (of any religion, of course). US won't intervene, as usual. Report as unsuitable 19. Halima, China / 2:13am 23 Jul 2006 Hezbollah did not start it. Israel has occupied Lebanon, and the Palestinian territories, bulldozed homes, and made war on its neighbors since it was born in a terrorist campaign to form its own brave new world. If, if if - if Hebbollah released the soldiers (and they are soldiers, not civilians) maybe Israel wouldn't have bombed this time, but it would some other time, Israel is the aggressor here - or at least not by any means an innocent victim. Talking ifs, if Israel would recognise the legitmate needs of the Palestinians first - then talk, without preconditions, maybe, just maybe there would be peace. Report as unsuitable 20. Tukuy, California, US / 2:13am 23 Jul 2006 Israel has killed hundreds of women and children. Israel has confused self-defense with ABUSE. Justice will come. God, who is the same for Christians, Muslims and Jewish, Report as unsuitable 21. Robin, Ashamed to be American, Gig Harbor, USA / 2:19am 23 Jul 2006 Shame on the US President, the Congress, and the American people for promoting this new holocaust of the Palestinian and Lebanese people. How can the G8, the UK, and half of Europe (thank you France, at least) sit by while this destruction and death continue? Have we all gone mad. The root of this all is religion, whether Zionism, Christian, or Moslem. Killing for God. Report as unsuitable 22. Ronny, Canada / 2:21am 23 Jul 2006 Death and destruction in war are always sad and unfortunate. But again how many have died after such intense Israeli bombing? Sadly but furtunately only 300 plus. Surely that is very sad. The same thing happened when we fought Germany. We also bombed to over kill did we not? Ever heard of Dresden, just to cite one example? Israel could have had the same amount of deaths were it not for the shelters that they had to put inplace due to people like those that they are fighting. People whom Europe refuse to cite as terrorists. Israel is not indiscriminately bombing. They bomb only where Hisbollah is involved, and they are every where. And of course some bombs do fall astray. Instead of criticizing Israel why do we not do all to get rid of Hezbollah? Heaven help us if we allow Iran to develop weapons of mass destruction. Europe turned a blind eye to Israel's protests when Hezbollah attacked along the border many times, attempted kidnaps, and fired rockets into Israel sparodically. Now that they became more daring due to our connivance, and now that Israel has said that enough is enough, as usual, we blame Israel. When have European papers published the daily atrocities that Hamas and others do to Israelis? But let Israel do one wrong thing and we all jumb on her. Well, enough is enough. Hisbollah must go or the world will always be in tormoil. Report as unsuitable 23. Tyrianterror, Aberdeenshire / 2:21am 23 Jul 2006 The condemnation by this minister from the UK here's come I think a week too late.What the hell has Phoney, sorry Tony Blair been doing since Israel started this terror campaign against the Lebonese civilian population?????(Probably checking microphones are switched off). As I said in an email to Tony Blair's office I find it disgusting in this century that both the UK & US are standing by whilst innocent civilians are slaughtered.The US have given the go ahead to Israel to wipe out a population & the country's infrastructure before it does aught. The US won't do anything anyway it after all supports Israel & Bush is ever mindful of the Jewish vote at home. Already 100's of women,children & men have died in Lebanon by terror tactics used by the Israeli state in the name of 'defence'.All we hear from the UK & US Gov is how it's in response by Hezbollah kidnapping a few Israeli soldiers.How can this country condone the murder & maiming of countless Lebonese nationals in this fashion?.Ordinary people are suffering at the hands of Israel, how many people have to die before the west takes notice. Frankly I think it a bloody disgrace waiting for so long so that the Israeli military can do it's work, dragging heels whilst people die. We value our lives highly in this country , but seemingly lives in other let's say arab states is worth less, than Xtian/Jewish ones. Unless of course OIL is under their feet, even then the ordinary man/woman is worthless. Yes I know why Israel started this war, but as far as I know Hezbollah kidnapped the soldiers for the release of Palestinians held illegally by Israel.Israel uses thuggish bully boy tactics, on a country that's suffered enough. The US can't decry other countries supporting terrorism, the US's in the past seen fit to fight wars by proxy & support terrorist organisations to it's own end. I'm fed up too of 'Anti semitism' being thrown in the face of anyone who 'dares' to be critical of Israel, well tough I think. As I've said elsewhere yes the Jews were persecuted in the past, BUT others were persecuted & murdered too, two wrongs don't make a right, & Israel terrorising,bombing & murdering civilians, causing 1000's of Lebonese to turn into refugees is totally inhumane, espicially when it values her own nationals so highly. On a last note, do Jews wear skullcaps in order to remind themselves they're in the sight of god?????, well obviously a lot of them have forgotten how their god & others will judge them. Report as unsuitable 24. Peter Alexander, Madison, Wisconsin / 2:28am 23 Jul 2006 I am no sympathizer of Hezbollah, but the Israeli reaction is so outrageous as to turn my sympathies against them entirely. If a person has cancer you don't shoot them in the head. You use a surgical approach with the tools available. It is hard to believe that the Israelis cannnot pinpoint every rocket launch by Hezbollah, and take out the firing positions one by one. Instead, they are targeting civilians and vital Lebanese civilian infrastructure. The numbers say a lot: nearly 300 Lebanese killed, almost all of them civilians and one thrid of them children, while Israel has lost about 1/10th that number. Even if an eye for an eye were a valid concept (it isn't) it appears that the Israelis are extracting a pound of flesh from the heart of Lebanon for the sake of two of their kidnapped soldiers. Is it any wonder that the Arabs hate them so vehemently? If the Israelis were to display some understanding and compassion for what the Arabs (and especially the Palestinians) have lost on their account, perhaps the road might lead to peace. But war-mongering in the name of national defence appears to be the nature of the Israeli regime. It makes me ashamed of my own country (US) that we are the ones supplying the bombs and the bullets being used against innocent Lebanese. Hatred and murder do not solve problems. They only escalate them. Report as unsuitable 25. Richard, Canada / 2:29am 23 Jul 2006 I noticed a poster here from China thinks that this is all Israel's fault and they started it. I guess you must actually believe the nonsense your state news agencies are feeding you. By the way, how's that occupation and ethnic cleansing of Tibet going for you? You guys are doing a much more effecient job there than the Isrealis. Report as unsuitable 26. mostafa, Boulder, CO / 2:30am 23 Jul 2006 Over the last couple of years we have seen advances in leaps and bounds of peace in the Middle East. Israeli and Syrian withdrawal from Lebanon allowed it to beging to develop a normal/safe society. Hamas announced a cease-fire and it seemed things were headed in the right direction. But this wasn't the direction Israel wanted and has launched indiscriminatory attacks on the whole of Lebanon, including Beirut and the north along Syria's border (which doesn't even have hezbollah). This proves Israel cannot survive without constant conflict and war. Report as unsuitable 27. James, US / 2:30am 23 Jul 2006 What is sad to me is that Israel has persistently refused to lend aid to the governing bodies of neighbors like the Palestinian Authority and the Lebanese government to help root out the minority of terrorists among them who insist on attacking Israel. Instead, they have for decades pursued a policy of militarism which is so extreme that they even deliberately attacked an American ship in 1967. Israel has been caught spying on the US, has engaged in assassinations in foreign nations and in general behaves exactly as we would characterize a rogue terrorist state, yet they receive the unquestioned support from the US government despite the fact that they provide nothing of benefit to America and their arrogant warmongering serves to stir up violent terrorist sentiments against America and Europe. Why America doesn't simply destroy all the absurd weapons we have sold them over the last several decades and refuse to provide them with more is incomprehensible. Israel has never cooperated with international efforts to curb nuclear proliferation and by most estimates possesses hundreds of illegitimate nuclear weapons, yet they continue to get a free pass from America. It is time that America holds Israel to the same standards we do other nations. These people are engaged in a campaign of indiscriminate violence against Lebanon in the same way the Bush administration invaded Iraq. These sorts of ham fisted militarist actions can only lead to harm to the entire Western world in the long term by bringing on more terrorist attacks on innocent people who did not vote to elect George Bush. Certainly the Israeli people have every right to defend themselves from terrorist attacks, but not by engaging in the kind of militarism we have seldom seen since the Empire of Japan was defeated in World War II. Report as unsuitable 28. dave, California / 2:30am 23 Jul 2006 Hezbollah, Hamas, Israel, all terrorists. Terrorists kill women, children, old people, non combatants. What is the difference here? Easy The H's have little rockets and followers who blow themselves up. I.E. there damage is small and fairly limited. Israel has Tanks, F-16 and every piece of equipment that a well equipped modern army has. To say that Israel is responding appropriately is to say we kill cockroaches with 1000 pound bombs. what is happening here? I think we are seeing the US government countenance the destruction of Lebanon. Further I belive it supports Bush's desire to cause world war 3 and bring on the Rapture. Please lord don't let the world think that what the US government does represents what americas people think or want. Shame on all these people. I have lived in the Middle East for many years and have a lot of first hand knowledge and many many dear friends who are suffering on both sides. Report as unsuitable 29. Goldman, USA Long Island New York / 2:36am 23 Jul 2006 Here is the facts: Over 1000 Rocket are launched into Isreal. If Hezbollah lanched a 1000 Rockets into London or 1000 missles into Washington. What would the Americans and the British do ? - they would stand together and anniliate the outrage. Its not that people don't care about Hezbollah and the families and people behind the scenes we do indeed care our weakness What going on here is a media and political charade that means nothing - the peole reading this are way too smart & what will play out is the return to the middle road since the extremes never fully materialize in enduring time but will continually reappear. The unfourtune thing is that itelligence cannot catch up with insipid stupidity fast enough in this situation as in others- the British government is a victum caught in the middle to pacify the enemy within, clearly that the articulate painting missed by most. Report as unsuitable 30. Ronny, Canada / 2:37am 23 Jul 2006 Isn't it most amazing how we have not criticized the Muslims for the dreadful carnage of their suicide bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan and the rest of the world. One paper said that this god fearing people are killing one hundred a day. And these people killed are not soldiers, but innocent men, women, and children. Where are our mouths condemning this orgy of death there? But now that Israel seeks to defend herself from similar slaughter everyone condemns; thank God for America and Blair so far. I personally do not like such death and destruction, but it becomes unavoidable when the world stands back and refuses to restrain terrorists organisations like Hisbollah and Hamas. Do any one reaslise how many Euros have been given to the Muslims in Israel? Billions! And where have they gone? Into arms in the main. If the Muslims will try to love the Israelis then we will have different environment; but they are incapable of loving their half brother. They only hate. And we see the results of this hatred in total disrespect for human life. May God help us all to love and not hate and exploit one another. Report as unsuitable 31. william, Los Angeles / 2:45am 23 Jul 2006 The comparisons between Israel -acting like terrorists- and the "so called" terrorists are Justified. Like them Israel is a disgrace to decency. Report as unsuitable 32. Mohammed, USA / 2:50am 23 Jul 2006 Isreal is encouraging terrorism by displacing almost a million people and killing hundreds. If isreal was really fighting terrorism it would have massed its troops at borders day one and wiped out the terrorists by now, instead isreal chose to create a holocaust environment in lebanon first then go for terrorists. Report as unsuitable 33. Gerald, USA / 2:51am 23 Jul 2006 It is very strange to hear thousands of times the same assertion again and again when no one, no one is arguing against it! "Israel has the right for self-defense", "Israel has the right for self-defense," "Israel has the right for self defense" ......who is against it? Every nation has the right for "self defense," including Lebanon, Egypt, France, USA, Germany...etc. There around 200 members at UN, all of them have the right for self defense by UN Charter and International law. Among these nations also Palestinians have been included. So, why repeat the same thing over and over when no one is against it? What is this, some kind of brain washing tactics? Palestinians also have the right for `self defense". isn't it? So, why you ladies and gentlemen, singled out "Israel right for self defense"? Who doesn't? So does Palestinians. Israel destroys milk factory in Lebanon and you say that was in "self defense" from terrorists? Israel destroys power stations and you say that was in "self defense" from "terrorists"? Israel destroys bridges, factories, roads, the only civilian airport, and you say that was in "self defense" from so called "terrorists?" Israel destroys residential apartment buildings in Beirut and you say that was for "self defense" from "terrorists?" Israel blocs sea routes, destroys bridges and roads and you say that was for "self defense" from "terrorists"? Are you going to eliminate an entire small defenseless nation and then proclaim you won the struggle against "terrorism? Do we have anything left in our soul resembling "sanity?" Are you driving us into barbaric, dark middle ages? I resent that most forcefully! Report as unsuitable 34. Ronny, Canada / 2:52am 23 Jul 2006 By the way folks, some say that it's only a minority of terrorists in Lebanon, the Hezbollah. Well there are over half a million Shia or Shiite muslims in Lebanon, and Hezbollah is Shiite like its grandfather Iran. These Shia are funding and helping Hezbollah along with Syria which is Sunni. So even Sunni and Shia unite in trying to liquidate Israel with Europe's connivance. But God will not allow that to happen, it appears. I trust that we will see a quick end to this sad war that we have allowed to take place by our depreciation and disregard of Israel. Report as unsuitable 35. Peter Alexander, Madison, Wisconsin / 2:54am 23 Jul 2006 If you approach conflict as a "zero sum game" (one side loses and the other side wins), then it is easy to condemn the Muslim fanatics and support the Israeli response. But the world will not survive such thinking. No one is 100% right, and no one is 100% wrong. As human beings, we need to come to grips with the fact that we are all fallible, and that if someone is steamed, they probably have a reason. Acknowledging each person's and each culture's experience is a fundamental step towards reconciliation. Look how Desmond Tutu ad Nelson Mandela responded to the disgraceful behavior of the racist regime of South Africa. Instead of bombs, bullets, and condmenation, they offered reconciliation, acknowledgement, respect, and peace. This is the example we must follow--that Israel must follow if it is sincere in seeking peace with its neighbors. But the Israeli regime, like the American Regime, seems intent on its own political survival, rather than peace, prosperity, and the well-being of all. Report as unsuitable 36. Iain, Edinburgh / 3:00am 23 Jul 2006 James, US 2.30am Much of what you say is just not correct. Only recently did Israel supply US made small arms to the Palestinian Authority for Abbas' new security agency, to assist in cracking down on the terrorists. Unfortuantely these same weapons have already been used to kill Israelis. Under the Oslo Accoprd, Israel armed the PA. As Michael Oren demonstrates in the definitive histopry of the 1967 war, the attack on the US ship was accidental, and both sides treated it as such. Jonathan Pollard is still in a US jail (longest sentence ever in the US for espionage) for passing on information that the US was obliged under treaty to supply to Israel, but had refused to do so. According to the US, the value of the services (military, intelligence, etc) which Israel supplies to the US is many times the value of US aid. Israel's nuclear weapons are not "illegitimate" in law as Israel has never signed any non-profileration treaties. Report as unsuitable 37. Mani, london / 3:01am 23 Jul 2006 Halima from China has a point... a bit biased but nevertheless, a point. Its a similar point the Foreign Office minister has pointed out. The fact that the victims of this crisis has shifted from minorities to entire nations, and alarmingly getting worse. A clear failure of the Lebanese to weed out Hezbollah as an informal military, whom were originally formed to protect the region from Israel; thus inherently alluding to the last few decades, seems scathing and bleak. Then, clear failure of the Isrealis to open their hearts to the Palestinian people's cause and weed out criminals once the anger has healed, seems like a burden haunting a whole people riddled with geographical identity. I find it naive and innept to think that you can change paradigms of an entire people by force, since it takes a healthy spirit to be able to live in peace with your neighbors, regardless of who they are. Having said that, I am still not convinced Islam is a violent religion and so, criminals of course should be rectified with empathy and example. Tonight, again, I will pray for wisdom and peace. Report as unsuitable 38. Khal, Canada / 3:01am 23 Jul 2006 Is that what you really think Ronnie? Because I am sure a lot of Muslims would disagree with you. We need to stop pushing religion on top of political debates. The Jewish people have been through a lot. If Israel asks us to take human rights seriously we expect them to hold themselves to a higher standard than what they are now. This is Cain and Abel non-stop for thousands of years. If your two best friends were fighting and it got of of hand, then you step in, stop it, and they bow to the higher power. What's going on now is utterly useless. The world needs Israel to be a successful beacon of human rights and fairness. We don't need this kind of Israel, do we? If so, what's the difference? Who's right and who's wrong? It's a stupid fight and it must be stopped right away. Report as unsuitable 39. Gerald, USA / 3:05am 23 Jul 2006 It is very strange to hear thousands of times the same assertion again and again when no one, no one is arguing against it! "Israel has the right for self-defense", "Israel has the right for self-defense," "Israel has the right for self defense" ......who is against it? Every nation has the right for "self defense," including Lebanon, Egypt, France, USA, Germany...etc. There are around 200 members at UN, all of them have the right for self defense by UN Charter and International law. Among these nations also Palestinians have been included. So, why repeat the same thing over and over when no one is against it? What is this, some kind of brain washing tactics? Palestinians also have the right for `self defense". isn't it? So, why you ladies and gentlemen, singled out "Israel right for self defense"? Who doesn't? So do Palestinians. So what are you saying? Israel destroys milk factory in Lebanon and you say that was in "self defense" from terrorists? Israel destroys power stations and you say that was in "self defense" from "terrorists"? Israel destroys bridges, factories, roads, the only civilian airport, and you say that was in "self defense" from so called "terrorists?" Israel destroys residential apartment buildings in downtown Beirut and you say that was for "self defense" from "terrorists?" Israel blocs sea routes, destroys TV stations and telecommunication systems and you say that was for "self defense" from "terrorists"? Are you going to eliminate an entire small defenseless nation and then proclaim you won the struggle against "terrorism? Do we have anything left in our soul resembling "sanity?" Are you driving us into barbaric, dark middle ages? I resent that most forcefully! Report as unsuitable 40. Phil, Oregon coast, USA / 3:08am 23 Jul 2006 Now that I think of it, after reading many of these comments... why didn't the US negotiate with the Japanese after Pearl Harbor, instead of declaring war? And why didn't the British keep their self-defense against Hitler's air attacks strictly withing their own borders? Oh yeah... maybe because today neither the US or Britain would actually exist as we know them. To those who don't get it, war is an ugly business. And it seldom ever ends until one side or the other is completely defeated. Cease fires are merely temporary bandages, with no lasting effects historically. The way I look at it, in the long run this is a war that will eventually have to be played out, since that is the intention of Iran and most of the middle east. Maybe we should just wait until they nuke Israel, and maybe even New York. How many civilians do you think might be affected by waiting for that, and the requisite nuclear response which will undoubtedly follow. Perhaps it's better to fight the war now, than when there can be no winner (unless you believe in the religious concept of winning through suicide.) Report as unsuitable 41. pgbob, Berlin, Germany / 3:16am 23 Jul 2006 Just to share the facts: *dead- Israel 34 vs Lebanese 300 (CNN) *weapons - Advance weaponary vs random rockets *population attacked by random rockets that can be quickly shelterd or moved vs population attacked by well-planned target missions Questions: *how do you justified Israel's target position and the result confirmed hits of these terrorists locations? *are you buying this self-defense and the release of the two soldiers are the main cause of the war? *US & UK supporting this idea of this so-call "self-defence" by Israel? Something to ponder: *People terrorized others as others have terrorized before them, we need to know and study the history cause of all what happened in the region and not by the instant tragedy we see now in the present *It is not the religion to be blamed but the nation or race of people that have brought the hatred between each other Report as unsuitable 42. Khal, Canada / 3:19am 23 Jul 2006 pgbob, to clarify, UK no longer supports it, no longer considers this Israel's "self-defence", no longer supports the offence. Report as unsuitable 43. Wayne, Ontario, Canada / 3:20am 23 Jul 2006 First, a short refresher of the facts: After the State of Israel was unanimously created by the UN over 50 years ago, this fledgling state was attacked by Arab countries on 5 occasions and were defeated each time. Having failed to defeat this small country the so-called "displaced" Palestinians have continued to live in refugee camps because not one of their kindred countries ever went to their assistance in taking them back. Over the ensuing years the embarrasment and resentment towards Israel has grown into the development and refinement of the terrorist. Hezbollah and Hamas represent the most extreme of these. From this grew the introduction of the 'suicide bombers' who have taken the lives and maimed hundreds of innocent men, women and children in various Israeli cities and towns. Terrorists who were caught at this were justifiably imprisoned in Israel and most remain so today. Six years ago Israel forcibly removed their own people from Gaza in order to turn the land over to the palestinians. They did so voluntarily and without conditions. The hope was that this would allow the palestinians to build and grow and develop. Peace reigned for almost 6 years when, suddenly, Hezbollah in Lebanon decided to raid Israel, capture 3 soldiers and then start lobbing hundreds of rockets indiscriminately into various high density areas of Israel. As any country would do Israel has retaliated and continues to do so. In so doing Israel is accused of over-reacting and using more force than necessary. Israel has no choice: so-called surgical strikes are an impossibility because Hezbollah hide within the main centers of South Lebanon and deliberately blend in with the population. How typically cowardly of them. A fair analogy for those who know their history is that thousands of innocent Germans were killed by allied bombs in order to defeat Hitler and the Third Reich. It was horrible and terrifying but it was a necessary and desparate move to eliminate once and for all a world-wide threat to peace and freedom. Had that not happened we in the West wouldn't be living in freedom today. Israel deserves nothing less than the freedom to continue to live as they do as a free and democratic society without having to fear for their lives each day. Remember, Israel never attacks; they only ever retaliate. Report as unsuitable 44. Phil, Oregon coast, USA / 3:22am 23 Jul 2006 For a little further reading I might suggest this article from Times online. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-2281184,00.html Report as unsuitable 45. Mani, london / 3:22am 23 Jul 2006 In response to Phil's comment from Oregon Coast USA I can see how the momentum of entire cultures can create these tensions that leave politicians with seemingly no choice but to wage war. I can see how war is a risky and dirty business. But I also see how the way in which war is waged can tip a balance of opinion in a highly diverse world where fundamental morality and biological needs are of the few things we have in common. If we do not embrace these common traits with mututal respect, then we see a lot more variables come into play. That is my worry and i believe many share this worry all around the world. So, if war is a dirty business, then I suggest to those that wage it, to clean themselves up and set a good example as leaders and not fill the populace with their filth. Report as unsuitable 46. Afzal Khan, USA / 3:26am 23 Jul 2006 Two wrongs don't make one right. The Israel's excessive military action and attacks by Hezbollah from Lebanon must stop. It is about time that Israel stops the genocide it is has started in Lebanon. Yes the Europeans and the whole World looks on as if nothing is happening! What a shame! AK Report as unsuitable 47. Coen, Australia / 3:34am 23 Jul 2006 This war is disgusting and so is the reaction of the rest of the western world. We are supposed to be better than this. It makes me sick that this war is called in the name of self-defence. Imagine how all this is going to look in 40years? They will think we all went mad in the same way as we look at nazi germany in the 1930-40's. Like it or not Israel and the US are playing similar tactics to Hitler. This 'terrorist' fanasto is a brainwashing campaign to justify the unjustifiable. Sure terrorists are bad, but you can't get rid of them by breeding more. Which is exactly what the tactics in this war are doing. For every terrorist killed 2 will pop up pissed off about the 10 civilians killed while killing that one terrorist. If Israel was serious about peace and the removal of Hezbollah then they would have co-operated with Lebanon while offering financial and military support to help remove Hezbollah. Report as unsuitable 48. Shalom Freedman, Jerusalem / 3:34am 23 Jul 2006 When Israel withdrew to its international border in 2000 it had a U.N. agreement that the Lebanese Army would ensure that the border be quiet. Instead Hezbollah controlled the border periodically attacking Israel. Its attack of Israeli soldiers across the border prompted an Israeli response aimed at first of all eliminating the Hizbollah threat. Hizbollah continues to attack Israeli cities with missiles supplied it by Syria and Iran. Israel 's campaign is to eliminate the attacks of Hizbollah on Israeli cities, and bring about the realization of the agreement signed in 2000. It is doing this in such a way as to minimize as far as possible its own civilian and military casualties. In the course of this there are unfortunate civilian casualties on the other side. Israel tries to minimize these but the terrorists implant themselves among civilian population, hide there, and so the effort to destroy them brings civilian casualties also. All those who condemn Israel should think of what they would do in the same situation, and realize that Israel is acting as morally as possible in a war situation. Report as unsuitable 49. Jim, Alabama, USA / 3:36am 23 Jul 2006 I must say I am truly astonished at Britain they are beginning to remind me of the gentleman that ran against Bush the last election, flipping and flopping on a whim to appear good to what every the general census is at that moment. They assist us in Iraq, but condemn Israel. Please do not get me wrong, I am profoundly thankful for any assistance we get in Iraq, there are so few these days that think of anyone but themselves, they are entitled to freedom but the guy across the water isn't. It is not really surprising as many great men have said over the last couple of decades that the US has become so compliant and submissive of the issue's and simply can not see beyond their own doorway, and I sadly must say I agree. CNN, to my knowledge is the ONLY us station that has bothered to actually do a documentary on the feeling of the Iraqis on the street and dare show it here, but I will admit that the other news stations have mad e me so sick of watching them that I may have missed them doing one and then twisting it into another slanderous mockery. As for Israel I must say I am astounded! I had truly come to think that there wasn't a Country left "That is a "part" of the UN, aka Useless Nuts. This is twice now that Israel has had to step up to the plate and do what needed done.I watched as the Syria's Ambassador spoke on CNN I believe it was and give his "views" when confronted with the actions of Israel and their departure from the Gaza strip he kept stating that Israel continued to attack Lebanon, yet it was never publicized, the only thing that could be proved was how Hezbollah terrorist continued to attack even after the so called land was vacated. I would love to see some type of proof where Israel did anything other then protect its border even as they sit and watched their own people continue to die and the New Government of Lebanon do NOTHING! Quite frankly I think the US and the those on the worthless bench warming UN Council should take not of how to deal with Terrorist! Enough of the Political BS watching their six, I am all for freeing Iraq and would go back right now if they could use a crippled 43 year old, "I can still shoot pretty well over 300 yards and I am sure if the target is human and bigger then a deer I can do so much farther away. But I am tired of watching our troops being used as police officers again with invisible lines drawn that they can not cross. Let them do what they were train to do!, There is NO INNOCENT'S when they are harboring terrorist in their homes. They have been told over and over, and if they are still in the same house then that is just a fact of War it is not Pretty, it is not Fair, and by damn it is not a GAME! It does not fall under the same rules as police officers on the beat. When they shoot rockets at ou Report as unsuitable 50. Phil, Oregon coast, USA / 3:42am 23 Jul 2006 Afzal Khan, I think the term genocide is just a bit exaggerated, and certaily biased and intended to inflame. If you don't know the difference between genocide and collateral damage, maybe you should look the terms up. Yes, innocent lives lost is absolutely abhorent, but almost impossible to prevent in war when one side hides among the population, and chooses to send suicide killers into public places to deliberately strike non-combatants. Who are the cowards here? Not the poor, ignorant suicide bombers (anticipating their reward and their virgins - strange irony coming from a sexually intolerant society.) No, the cowards are the manipulators who send them to their deaths on a false premise. The terrorist leaders incite the emotions and desires for martyrdom in others, but hide like rats themselves. Yet, when they are rooted out and killed themselves, their followers label them martyrs also. Even when they were running for their lives trying to escape truly facing their enemies. This whole notion that killing people indiscriminately (suicide bombers, markets, cafes, busses...) is some kind of sacred religious right is incompatible with continuing evolution of the human species. All it will get in the end is more death and destruction. You reap what you sow... Report as unsuitable 51. Mani, london / 3:44am 23 Jul 2006 thanks for the biased history lesson... but I still dont get it; what is a terrorist again? Report as unsuitable 52. Gerald, USA / 3:48am 23 Jul 2006 Let me answer to you, Mr Phil The killings and destructions you are calling "war" is not a war at all, it is butchery against an entire, small, defenseless nation who did not go to war against Israel! Israel is armed up to its teeth with most modern weaponry plus nuclear bomb no one, I repeat, no one can match with in the Middle East. Whom are we kidding here? Where is the warrior party against Israel? Egypt? No! Syria? No! Iran? No? S. Arabia? No! Lebanon? No! Turkey? No! So, Mr Phil, against whom are you fighting this so called "war?" Against a group of poorly equipped young men and boys who joined together to defend themselves against Israel's encroachment of their rights and dignity. They have no tanks, no airplanes, no air defense, no battleship, no artillery, no nothing, nothing....those you call "terrorists" is not an army in military sense, those so called rockets they have, are non sense! They launched 1000, and hardly killed two dozens and a few building damaged. How can you possibly compare this with the Empire of Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, USA? Do you think people reading your post are nuts? Report as unsuitable 53. mike, texas, usa / 4:03am 23 Jul 2006 At this point, Israel is perfectly justified in dropping a nuke on Iran. I wish they would go ahead and get it over with before any other nation gets hurt. Why wait any longer? It's only a matter of time until Iran has nuclear weapons, and we all know their plans for the bombs. They are going to destroy Israel in one "storm." Report as unsuitable 54. Andy, Canada / 4:13am 23 Jul 2006 In a nutshell the Israelis are a bunch of hypocrits,they hate when their people and way of life is compromised even a little but care nothing for others. They can't get over wrong that has been done to them in the past and have become violent childkillers to compensate. Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
