---------- forwarded message ---------- From: feifei2899 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 23 Mei 2007 22:49 Subject: [debat_antar_agama] The complete account of Muhammad speaking the Satanic verses as To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Appendix: The complete account of Muhammad speaking the Satanic verses as recorded by Ibn Ishaq. Now the apostle was anxious for the welfare of his people, wishing to attract them as far as he could. It has been mentioned that he longed for a way to attract them, and the method he adopted is what Ibn Hamid told me that Salama said M. b. Ishaq told him from Yazid b. Ziyad of Medina from M. b. Ka`b al-Qurazi: When the apostle saw that his people turned their backs on him and he was pained by their estrangement from what he brought them from God he longed that there should come to him from God a message that would reconcile his people to him. Because of his love for his people and his anxiety over them it would delight him if the obstacle that made his task so difficult could be removed; so that he meditated on the project and longed for it and it was dear to him. Then God sent down "By the star when it sets your comrade errs not and is not deceived, he speaks not from his own desire," and when he reached His words "Have you thought of al-Lat and al-`Uzza and Manat the third, the others" [4], Satan, when he was meditating upon it, and desiring to bring it ( sc. reconciliation) to his people, put upon his tongue "these are the exalted Gharaniq [5] whose intercession is approved". When the Quraysh heard that, they were delighted and greatly pleased at the way in which he spoke of their gods and they listened to him; while the believers were holding that what their prophet brought from their Lord was true, not suspecting a mistake or a vain desire or slip, and when he reached the prostration and the end of the Sura in which he prostrated himself the Muslims prostrated themselves when their prophet prostrated confirming what he brought and obeying his command, and the polytheists of Quraysh and others who were in the mosque prostrated when they heard the mention of their gods, so that everyone in the mosque believer and unbeliever prostrated, except al-Walid b. al-Mughira who was an old man who could not do so, so he took a handful of dirt from the valley and bent over it. Then the people dispersed and the Quraysh went out, delighted at what had been said about their gods, saying, "Muhammad has spoken of our gods in splendid fashion. He alleged in what he read that they are the exalted Gharaniq whose intercession is approved". The news reached the prophet's companions who were in Abyssinia, it being reported that Quraysh had accepted Islam, so some men started to return while others remained behind. Then Gabriel came to the apostle and said , "What have you done, Muhammad? You have read to these people something I did not bring you from God and you have said what He did not say to you. " The apostle was bitterly grieved and was greatly in fear of God. So God sent down (a revelation), for he was merciful to him comforting him and making light of the affair and telling him that every prophet and apostle before him desired as he desired and wanted what he wanted and Satan interjected something into his desires as he had on his tongue. So God annulled what Satan had suggested and God established His verses i.e. you are just like the prophets and apostles. Then God sent down: "We have not sent a prophet or apostle before you but when he longed Satan cast suggestions into his longing. But God will annul what Satan has suggested. Then God will establish his verses, God being knowing and wise"[6]. Thus God relieved his prophet's grief, and made him feel safe from his fears and annulled what Satan had suggested in the words used above about their gods by his revelation "Are yours the males and His the females? That were indeed an unfair division" ( i.e. most unjust); "they are nothing by names which your fathers gave them" as far as the words "to whom he pleases and accepts" [7], i.e. how can the intercession of their gods avail with Him ? When the annulment of what Satan had put upon the prophet's tongue came from God, Quraysh said: "Muhammad has repented of what he said about the position of your gods with Allah, altered it and brought something else." (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-167) Subject: [debat-alkitab] Setan menaruh kata-kata pada lidah Muhammad (Ibn Ishaq 165-167) Muhamad dan para penyembah berhala di Mekah Ketika masih di Mekah, Muhamad mencoba membujuk kaum Mekah bernama Quraysh agar menerima Islam. Mereka tidak mengacuhkannya tetapi Muhamad semakin gigih memaksakan pandangannya. Turunlah ayat ini: Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third ... these are the exalted Gharaniq [3] whose intercession is approved. (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166) Al-Lat, al-Uzza dan Manat adalah dewa2 berhala yg dipuja di Mekah. Sebelumnya, Muhamad menentang mereka tetapi sekarang Muhammad MENERIMA berhala2 tsb dan menyatakan bahwa intersesi mereka disetujui Allah (their "intercession is approved"). Penjelasan Muslim kemudian ttg mengapa Muhamad akhirnya menerima berhala2 ini adalah bahwa Setan-lah yg memasukkan kata2 ini pada lidah Muhamad. Setan ... menaruh kata2 ini pada lidah Muhamad "these are the exalted Gharaniq whose intercession is approved". (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166) Muhamad melafalkan kata2 ini seakan2 datang dari Allah, padahal dari Setan. Itulah yg dimaksudkan dgn Ayat Setan. Kini setelah Muhamad menyatakan pengakuan atas berhala2 Quraysh, mereka kemudian menerimanya. Mereka senang dgn cara ia berbicara ttg dewa-dewi mereka dan mulailah mereka mendengarkannya. .. kata mereka, "Muhamad menanggapi dewa-dewa kami secara luar biasa". (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166) Berhasil juga akhirnya Muhamad menarik perhatian Quraysh. Mereka menerima Muhamad karena ia menerima dewa dewi mereka. Namun beberapa waktu kemudian, ia menyadari kesalahannya. Alasan Muslim ? Muhamad ditegur oleh Jibril (ada yg menganggapanya malaikat). Jibril datang kpd rasul dan berkata , "Apa yg kau lakukan, Muhamad? Kau membacakan kdp orang2 ini sesuatu yg tidak saya turunkan padamu dari Allah dan kau mengatakan apa yg tidak saya katakan." (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166) Muhamad sekarang berubah pikiran dan mengatakan bahwa Allah berpesan kpdnya agar berbicara menentang dan menolak berhala2 itu. Suku Quraysh-pun bereaksi: "Karena Allah, Muhamad menyesali apa yg dikatakannya ttg dewa2 kami dan mengubahnya dgn pernyataan baru." (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166-167) Muhamad kini harus menjelaskan kpd baik pengikutnya maupun kaum Quraysh mengapa ia berubah pikiran ttg berhala mereka dan tidak lagi menerima mereka. Alasannya ada dlm ayat ini. Belum pernah Kami mengirim nabi yg keinginannya tidak ingin dirubah oelh Setan. Tetapi Allah membatalkan campur tangan Setan itu dan menegaskan wahyuNya. (Qur'an 22:52, Dawood) Peristiwa ttg Muhamad melanturkan kata2 Satan dan sementara menerima berhala dan polytheisme perlu dikomentari. 1. Ingat bahwa Quran sendiri yg mengatakan bahwa Setan suka memalsukan keinginan Muhamad (Qur'an 22:52). Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd dan Tabari bahkan mengakui peristiwa ini. Kalau peristiwa ini ditulis oleh orang2 yg menentang Islam, maka kita boleh curiga bahwa peristiwa ini dibuat2 guna menjelek2kan Muhamad. Tetapi mungkinkah Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd, dan Tabari meng-ada2 ttg pengakuan Muhamad akan dewa berhala ? Kemungkinan itu jelas kecil. 2. Qur'an juga mengatakan bahwa nabi2 lain dijebak Setan. Adam kejebak (7:189-192), begitu pula Aaron (4:163, 7:150-153). Kedua nabi ini dihukum karena kelakuan buruk mereka. Mereka menyesal dan Tuhan memaafkan. Jadi jelas seorang nabi bisa saja kejebak. Qur'an mengatakannya dan nabi2 sebelumnya melakukannya. 3. Qur'an juga mengatakan bawha beberapa surah Qur'an mengalami perubahan. Dan tatlakal Kami merubah ayat dgn ayat lain - dan Allah tahu akan apa yg diturunkanNya - mereka akan mengatakan kpdmu (Muhamad), "Kau seorang pemalsu !" (Qur'an 16:101, Arberry) Ini karena orang2 mulai mengeluh ttg Muhamad karena ia merubah2 ayat2nya. Contoh lain bgm Muhamad merubah dan menyesuaikan sebuah ayat. Diriwayatkan Al-Bara: Diwahyukan: "Tidak sederajad adalah muslim yg duduk (di rumah) dan mereka yg berjuang di jalan Allah." (Qur'an 4:95) Nabi mengatakan, "Panggil Zaid dan suruh ia membawa papan tulis, tinta dan tulang (utk menulis)." Lalu ia berkata, "Tulis: Tidak sederajad adalah Muslim yg blablabla ...", dan pada saat itu 'Amr bin Um Maktum, yg buta, duduk dibelakang nabi. Katanya, "O Rasulullah ! Apa perintahmu bagi diriku karena saya buta ?" Nah, sbg ganti ayat tsb, ayat ini diturunkan: "Tidak sederajad adalah Muslim yg duduk (di rumah), KECUALI mereka yg cacat badan atau buta atau lumpuh, dgn mereka yg berjuang di jalan Allah." (Qur'an 4:95) (Sahih al-Bukhari: volume 6, book 61, number 512) Kesaksian diatas jelas menunjuk pada modifikasi Q4:95. Jadi Ayat2 Setan bukanlah satu2nya contoh modifikasi. Dan ternyata kebiasaan memodifikasi ayat ini memang bagian dari perkembangan Quran. 4. Muhamad berdosa. Menerima berhala dan polytheisme adalah dosa. Memang akhirnya Muhamad menyesal tetapi ini menunjukkan adanya keleahan dlm hidupnya. Peristiwa ini tidak boleh diacuhkan. Ini menunjukkan bawha Muhamad, spt anda dan saya, harus juga mengaku bersalah dan meminta pengampunan: (Muhamad sembahyang) O Allah! Ampuni kesalahan dan kebodohan saya dan kelakuan saya yg melewati batas kebaikan; dan ampunilah segala kelakuan saya yang Kau lebih tahu dari saya. O Allah! Ampunilah kesalahan yg saya lakukan secara senda-gurau ataupun serius, dan maafkah kesalahan saya yg secara tidak disengaja maupun yg disengaja ... (Sahih Al-Bukhari: vol 8, book 75, number 408) Ketahuilah (O Muhammad) bahwa tiada Tuhan selain Allah, dan minta pengampunan bagi dosamu dan bagi Muslim (Qur'an 47:19, Pickthall). --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Chaudhry.Nijjhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > J E S U S A N D N A N A K P R E A C H E D I S L A M > > > > > > This may sound extremely odd to many but the few chosen, who understand the > New Testament and The AD-GRANTH SAHIB by "spirit" know it very well that > Gospel is actually centred around "ISLAM". > > > > Islam stands for one's "SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF GOD" i.e. to the > Righteousness of God and not to the wills or edicts of Mullahs, Popes, or > the other so-called priestly impostors who impose their own righteousness > upon others. Jesus presents an excellent example of "Islam" in Luke > 9.51-56: And it came to pass, when the time was come that He should be > received up, He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem. And sent > messengers before His face and they went, and entered into a village of the > Samaritans, to make ready for Him. And they did not receive Him, because > His face was as though He would go to Jerusalem. And when His disciples > James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to > come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But He turned, > and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. > For the Son of Man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. > And they went to another village. > > > > That is Jesus did not impose His own will or righteousness but left the > villagers to the Will of God in which the person has absolute "Freedom" > either to accept His Will, "Islam" and enjoy the PEACE OF MIND or to reject > it and make the world a living hell through the Fatwas of Mullahs, > INSHMULLAHS. This is the true definition of "Islam" and if we define > religion as one's duty towards God, then we say the religion of Jesus was > Islam; whilst the present Pope, Bishops, priests, Mullahs, or other > religious impostors who impose their own views upon others through edicts > and Fatwas have nothing to do with The "Islam" of Allah or God that supports > "humanity" but they are rather the Blind guides of the blind leading their > fanatic flocks into pit of death or the clever psychics best represented as > the satan Al-Djmar Al-Aksa at Mina, who are leading their blind followers > into strife and killing. > > > > The same has been stressed by SATGURU (Christ) NANAK DEVJI in the last verse > of the first stanza of JAPJI SAHIB, "HUKAM RAZAIE CHALNA, NANAK LIKHIA NAAL" > i.e. the Way to Salvation in this Dark Age is to go by the Will of God and > in addition to it there is the pre-destination that also plays part. > > > > In fact, this Dark Age as it has already been stressed is the Age of > "spirit" and not of the "works" anymore as it used to be when the Rabbis and > the Pandits were honest and true to Matt.13.52. Because the Rabbis and the > Pandits had become corrupt and in-efficient that God sent His own anointed > Christs in the names of Jesus and Nanak to preach the Gospel, called the > Good News because it is always received through revelations. God being > spirit, so only the predestined people of "spirit" can understand Gospel. > People of spirit are rare to come by and this is amply reflected in asking > the so-called Christians, Sikhs, Hindus, etc. whether they believed in Islam > or not? Most of them, especially the academicians, will say "no". > > > > In brief, initiation into "Islam" takes place through the ceremony of "HAJJ" > which is to make only the male children of 12 to 16 years of age "fatherful" > or the "sons of Man". Only the "sons of Man" could become the "sons of God" > through the grace of Allah. Thus, by becoming a "son of Man", the person > just approaches the "threshold" of Islam. > > > > The aim of Islam is to make the people "Mussallman". The word "Mussallman" > stands for "Mussallum - firm; Eeman - faith in Allah". Thus, a true > Mussallman is expected to be a "truthful, which is the raw or Kacha Eeman, > and contented, which is the firm or Puka Eeman, person who exercises > 'mercy', the Character of Allah, in his deeds". And this is how Satguru > Nanak Devji defined a "Mussallman": "MUSSALLMAN MOOM DIL HOWAE, ANTTER DI > MAEL DIL TAE DHOWAE" i.e. a true Mussallman is a "merciful" person who > washes the "internal filth" of the five temptations of heart over his > "heart". > > > > > > Thus, all the "truthful" and "contented" people, called the "Royal Kings" > and "merciful" people of the world for being going by the "Will of God" and > not imposing or going by their own wills go by the tenets of "ISLAM" and, > therefore, "ISLAM" is the universal religion of all the people having "Firm > Faith in God" i.e. their own wisdom is "she" to That of God. In fact, Islam > being the Religion of Allah, the Primary Source of Gospel i.e. "SUN", the > Mullahs, Popes, and the others have no place in True Islam and in Islam, it > is the cleanliness of the heart reflected by one's conscience or NEEYAT that > counts and not the idle "works" or the rituals. So, in Islam one's > conscience, in which "one treats others as one wishes to be treated", bears > "fruit". > > > > Therefore, a true "merciful" Mussallman never kills or robs another person > for the sake of his property or imposes his own views upon the others. > Therefore, the past invaders in the name of "Islam" being "cruel" were > nowhere near a true "Mussallman" but they were rather the infidels or > Kafirs. And this is the time for them to pay the cost of cruelty. > > > > A typical example will clarify the above concept. > > > > Ahmad Shah Abdali invaded India and was taking the booty of material wealth > and women away. The Khalsas of the Royal King Gobind Singhji could tolerate > the material loot of this infidel invader but not the honour (PATT) of the > people, the women being taken away as booty. As the Khalsas are to preserve > the "PATT" or honour of the people, so they intercepted the invader and in > the ensuing battle, they made Ahmad Shah Abdali to run for his life and in > the process, some of his queens were left behind. The Khalsas being the > enforcers of "Islam" treated the queens as their sisters and returned them > safe and sound back to Ahmad Shah Abdali. That was a great surprise for the > infidel Ahmad Shah Abdali of Afghanistan. Now, in this example, we shall > term the "Khalsas" as true Mussallmans. > > > > Thus, to be a true Mussallman is not a joke and the true followers of Christ > Jesus and Christ Nanak are also the "true Mussallmans", who are contented > with their lots and display mercy in their "deeds". Thus, the Foundation > Stone of the Second Temple of God at Amritsar well known as Golden Temple > was laid by a perfect Sikh, Mussallman Pir Mian Mir Ji. > > > > As in Allah, people pay for their past "deeds" within a short span of time, > so the present sufferings of people could be the result of their past > "deeds". No wonder the poor countries that were the subject of oppressions > in the past, shall inherit the "Kingdom of God". > > > > "INSHALLAH, GOD, AND NOT THE MAN, BE WILLING" > > > > Chaudhry Rajinder Nijjhar, M.Sc. > > Retired Senior Lecturer in Metallurgy. > > > > Gnostics are "seekers" of religious knowledge > > and we take no one for his word. > > We believe each individual receives "His Word" > > through "grace of God". > > Our religion is Islam of Allah where INSHALLAH prevails; > > and Sun, the Primary Source of Light, is worshipped. > > Islam of Mullahs where the Fatwas of Mullahs dominate, > > INSHMULLAHS and > > people worship moon and stars, the secondary source of Light is > of the sons of Satan, the Mullahs. > > > > In Islam of Allah, every one gives his own account to Allah whilst the > satanic Mullahs take accounts of the blind to spirit people. > > Our Islam is SHARIAH FREE, no prayer, no fasting or Hajj. > > Our Discussions are open minded and friendly. > > > > Meetings are open to all and they are "FREE". > > > > For a taste of Gnosticism, visit my web site:- > > > > http://www.nijjhar.freeserve.co.uk/pdbook.pdf > > http://www.nijjhar.freeserve.co.uk/sikhism.htm > > http://www.nijjhar.freeserve.co.uk/trinnut.JPG > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of adelelsaie > Sent: 23 May 2007 23:32 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [debat_antar_agama] Re: BLIND FAITH IS WORTHLESS.... > > > I opened my heat to Jesus > > Source: > http://www.usislam.org/christianity/i_opened_my_heat_to_jesus.htm > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] com asked me to open my heart to Jesus. I did, and > that is what happened. I sent him/her this email, then he did not > answer anything from my article, and asked me again to open my heart > to Jesus. !!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!! > > OK [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jesus loves me, I believe in Jesus, and I AM A > MUSLIM. > Can't you answer my point from your Bible by yourself? All what you > do is copy and past Christian articles that say the same thing. Sorry > I will not take any word you say, until you answer my points. > > Then You write about blind faith, copying an article and then post it. > Please think about my questions, and please expain the verses from > your Bible That I quoted. If You don't know the answer, That is OK, > ask someone to help you. > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], ISchneuing@ wrote: > > > > > > _Word of God_ (http://www.berthadudde.de/download/down_in.php? > nummer=14) > > > > > > BLIND FAITH IS WORTHLESS.... > > The human being shall believe but he shall not believe blindly.... > he shall > > form a mental opinion about everything he is required to believe > and then let > > his heart decide whether to reject or accept it. This is what I > expect of > > people, but I Am not content with blind faith when the demand of > such signifies > > a coercion of will, as I gave people completely free will. And you > always > > have to bear the human being's freedom of will in mind, then you > will also > > recognise whether a doctrine has originated from Me, for I gave > you humans > > absolute freedom, I gave you no other commandments apart from the > divine > > commandments of love, the fulfilment of which, however, also > presuppose free will. So > > now I want to guide you into bliss, and for that reason I > repeatedly convey My > > Word to you…. I instruct you and familiarise you with spiritual > knowledge…. > > and once again it is up to you to believe it or not…. Yet you > have to form > > your own opinion about it, you have to think about it and have the > good > > intention to recognise and accept what is right. I don't expect > you to blindly > > believe what you receive through My Word; yet I expect you to > scrutinise it > > before you make a judgment, and after serious examination you will > also recognise > > the truth of what you are presented with, and then you will no > longer believe > > blindly. > > But I cannot absolve many people from the accusation of having > accepted > > spiritual values without checking them and then holding on to > them…. which, after > > serious consideration, they would have had to recognise as being > untrue…. > > Many people are satisfied with what was handed on to them by way > of tradition, > > and they deem it wrong to dwell on it because this is what they > were also > > taught…. But how do they want to justify themselves one day? > Every human being > > received from Me the gift of faculty of thought, but does he make > use of it? > > Why does he scrutinise the value of earthly commodities but > refrains from > > doing so with spiritual goods? Why is the salvation of his soul of > so little > > significance to each individual person that he would anxiously ask > himself > > whether he can rely on the fact that he was offered the truth? Why > is he > > indifferent to the 'truth'? For truly, anyone who desires the > truth will not live in > > darkness…. And this state of indifference can be found wherever > any kind of > > spiritual knowledge is unreservedly and without scrutiny accepted > because it > > originates from a specific source…. and precisely this source > was not made > > accessible by Me, or the human being would live in truth and also > clearly > > recognise it as such as soon as he forms an opinion of it. You, > however, accept and > > believe blindly, and thus you strengthen the power of the one who > is My > > adversary, who wants to push you into darkness and keep you > there.... For you > > have dedicated yourselves to an organisation but not to Me, Who in > fact wants to > > guide you to the light…. > > However, you have free will and therefore I have never proceeded > forcibly > > but left the decision to you, and as long as you have searched for > Me in all > > sincerity I allow Myself to be found and kindle a bright light in > you which > > also clearly illuminates My adversary's activity. And every > person can possess > > this light by just desiring the light…. But it involves the > sincere will to be > > released from My adversary and this necessitates a close bond with > Me…. And > > thus you need only ask yourselves whether you…. who believe > blindly because > > you are told to do so…. feel impelled towards Me…. No one > having sought this > > close bond with Me has remained empty-handed, for I reveal Myself > to everyone > > and grant him the enlightenment which illumines his path ahead. > For if he is > > searching for Me then love is in him too, which soon will bestow > upon him > > the correct realisation. And thus he will also be able to > separate error from > > truth, he will no longer believe blindly, his bond with Me will > release him > > from My adversary, who will no longer be able to keep a person in > darkness > > once he has seen the light, which makes him happy and only > increases his desire > > for more light…. And he will free himself from the influence of > those who > > pretend to be My true representatives on earth, who do not live in > truth > > themselves and therefore cannot distribute it either…. who exert > spiritual coercion > > on their followers, which can never correspond to My will, because > earthly > > life is a matter of the human being's free decision of will > which is being > > prevented by the former…. Amen > > > > > > > > > > > > presently approx.1100 individual Revelations: > > _http://www.bertha-dudde.info/download/down_in.php?nummer=14_ > > (http://www.bertha-dudde.info/download/down_in.php?nummer=14) > > > > > > 33 booklets: > > 001 Who was Bertha Dudde > > 002 God is still speaking today > > 003 The Question of God > > 004 The Christ Problem > > 005 The Mystery of Man > > 006 God's plan of salvation > > 007 Love - The highest Commandment > > 009 You between two worlds Part 2 > > 010 God answers our Questions about the universe > > 011 Souls in the beyond 1 > > 012 Souls in the beyond 2 > > 013 Souls in the beyond 3 > > 014 Suffering and Healing - Why must I suffer? > > 015 How can I become healthy > > 020 Incarnation - Re-Incarnations > > 023 Pre-Adamites > > 039 The Forerunner of the Lord > > 045 The New Earth > > 051 Thus it will come to pass > > 052 God's proclamation to the dying world > > 058 God corrects misguides teachings and errors 1 > > 059 God corrects misguides teachings and errors 2 > > 060 God corrects misguides teachings and errors 3 > > 061 God corrects misguides teachings and errors 4 > > 062 God corrects misguides teachings and errors 5 > > 070a Return to God 1 > > 070b Return to God 2 > > 182 We are only guests on this earth > > E01 God Himself beams the truth to earth > > E02 I will guide you into truth 1 > > E03 I will guide you into truth 2 > > E04 I will guide you into truth 3 > > S01 Explanation, comfort and help for difficult days > > > > _http://www.bertha-dudde.info/download/down_in.php?nummer=15_ > > (http://www.bertha-dudde.info/download/down_in.php?nummer=15) > > > Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/ Yahoo! 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