When you say the Xilinx tools are not free, you must be referring to the
software for the huge parts only.  I have been using the Xilinx Webpack
suite for some time now, and it's free.  It covers most of the Xilinx FPGA
and CPLD parts.  The design I am working on today uses a XC95216, a 208-pin
part with 216 macrocells.  That's pretty big.  Of course, it's not nearly as
big as a 10M-gate Virtex device.

Webpack is pretty slick.  I don't use schematic entry for programmable
logic.  I'd rather use equations.  Webpack lets you use ABEL or VHDL for
PLDs, and VHDL for FPGAs.  Protel's PLD subsystem is unnecessary in light of
this.

If Protel wants to add value to their product, IMO the best thing they could
do would be to actively promote the creation of freely downloadable SCH
symbols and PCB footprints for a manufacturer's parts.  This would save us
all an incredible amount of time.

I also use only parts that have free development software.  I figure that
the development of the software is simply "the cost of doing business".  It
may be high, but that's the business they've chosen to be in.

Best regards,
Ivan Baggett
Bagotronix Inc.
website:  www.bagotronix.com


----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 4:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Antwort: Antwort: Altera and other


>
> Hello Mark,
>
> we use Lattice and Altera for programmable logic. ispDESIGN Expert
> (Lattice) is freeware. They call it "starter", but it covers the M4 family
> up to M4-512, the complete ispLSI1K, 2K, 5K families, and 8K up to 8840.
> That is more than 90% of all the devices they do. For Altera we use the
> MAX+Plus2 (freeware), which also covers the vast majority of their
devices.
> The biggest Altera I ever used is the ACEX 1K100 (100K gates), and it is
> supported by this software.
> XILINX, Actel et, al. I do not use for the discussed reason, unless there
> is an absolute necessity to do so, which did not happen so far. I am
> definitely not willing to pay for software tools, which I can only use to
> design logic into the devices of the manufacturor supplying the software.
> This would be different, if I chose to use vendor-independent tools like
> Synario. They live only from SW, as they don't sell ICs. But so far, I get
> on quite well with the free development tools supplied by the IC
> manufacturors.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gisbert
>
>
>
>
>
>                     "intellasys"
>                     <intellasys@cs        An:     "Protel EDA Forum"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>                     i-net.net>            Kopie:
>                                           Thema:  Re: [PEDA] Antwort:
Altera and other
>                     13.12.2001
>                     23:10
>                     Bitte
>                     antworten an
>                     "Protel EDA
>                     Forum"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gisbert,
>
> You make some nice products where your work.   I couldn't zoom in enough
to
> see what parts your using.  I own the Lattice, Xilinx and Altera tools.
> None were free.  Used Actel at one point.  It also was not free.   So,
> who's
> free tools are you using and what devices can they target?
>
> Mark
>
> >
> > You are invited to have a look at them under www.nateurope.com.
> > By the way, do you have a name, intellasys?
> >
> > Gisbert
> >
> >
> > That must limit your designs!
> >
> > >
> > > >Bastards... Do they want to sell ICs or software? It always makes me
> > > >mad.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Both, Tony, ICs and SW. Therefore, whereever possible, I implement
only
> > > devices into my designs which supply development software for free.
> > >
> >
> * *
>
>
>

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