On 2 Jul 2010, at 13:20, Patrick Durusau wrote: > Henry, > > Another reason why the SW is failing:
It is not failing, it is growing from strength to strength. > >> You don't see it as a need because you don't think of the options you are >> missing. Like people in 1800 did not think horses were slow, because they >> did not consider that they could fly. Or if they did think of that it was >> just as a dream. >> >> Or closer to home, in the 80ies most people did not miss getting information >> quickly, the library was around the corner. Or they did not miss buying >> their tickets online. >> >> You need a bit of imagination to see what you are missing. Which is why a >> lot of people stop dreaming. >> It's painful. >> > > I would reply with equally ad hominem remarks but it isn't worth the effort. What definition of ad hominem are you using. From Wikipedia: [[ Ad hominem abusive usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions. ]] I did not insult you. First: you did not present an argument. You just said: >>> I get as annoyed as anyone with the multiple logins and universities do >>> have some common logins for their internal systems but I am not sure I >>> would describe it as a need. At least until some survey shows that a large >>> number of users are willing to pay for such a service. So you are basing your argument on what the majority of people think. You won't consider something an issue until the majority of people consider it an issue, and not even then: until it is proven statistically that the majority of people think it is an issue! And so my argument is an reasonable answer to that: the people won't see what is a problem until after the problem has been solved. And I gave historical and recent examples to back up my case, So again what is your argument that it is not needed, other than waiting for people to tell you that it is? I give an argument in the video that to enable the Social Web it is needed. See the last few minuttes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=994DvSJZyww&feature=channel Henry > > Patrick > > On 7/2/2010 7:03 AM, Henry Story wrote: >> On 2 Jul 2010, at 12:49, Patrick Durusau wrote: >> >> >>> Henry, >>> >>> On 7/2/2010 6:03 AM, Henry Story wrote: >>> >>>> On 2 Jul 2010, at 11:57, Patrick Durusau wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 7/2/2010 5:27 AM, Ian Davis wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Patrick Durusau<[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I make this point in another post this morning but is your argument that >>>>>>> investment by vendors = >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> I think I just answered it there, before reading this message. Let me >>>>>> know if not! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I think you made a very good point about needing examples so user can >>>>> say: "I want to do that." >>>>> >>>>> Which was one of the strong points of HTML. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Ok, what users will want is the Social Web. And here is the way to >>>> convince people: >>>> "The Social Network Privacy Mess: Why we Need the Social Web" >>>> >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=994DvSJZyww&feature=channel >>>> >>>> >>>> ( This can of course be improved) The general ideas should be clear: >>>> >>>> dystopia: we cannot have all social data centralised on one server. >>>> utopia: there is a lot of money to be made in creating the social web, >>>> and thereby >>>> increasing democracy in the world. >>>> >>>> This can ONLY be done with linked data. And there is a real need for it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Several presumptions: >>> >>> 1) "there is a lot of money to be made creating the social web" - ? On what >>> economic model? Advertising? Can't simply presume that money can be made. >>> >> Look I could leave that to you as an exercise to the reader. I don't know >> why people want me >> to give them answers also on how to make money. Sometimes you have to think >> for yourself. >> >> Just think how much bigger a global social web is. Then think everyone >> connecting to everyone. >> Then think that perhaps you could sell software to firms that have certain >> needs, to doctors and hostpitals that have other needs, to universities, >> etc. etc... >> >> It's up to your imagination really. >> >> >>> 2) "thereby increasing democracy in the world" - ??? Not real sure what >>> that has to do with social networks. However popular "increasing democracy" >>> may be as a slogan, it is like "fighting terrorism." >>> >> Because people can publish their own data, and control what they say and to >> whome they say it a lot more. >> >> >>> Different governments and populations have different definitions for both. >>> I have my own preferences but realize there are different definitions used >>> by others. >>> >> I don't care what dictators think about democracy frankly. >> >> >> >>> 3) "can ONLY be done with linked data." Really? Seems like the phone >>> companies from your example did it long before linked data. >>> >> >> Phone companies do something very simple: connect phones. The internet >> connects computers. The web connects pages. You need the semantic web to >> connect things (and hence people) >> >> >> >>> 4) "there is a real need for it." ? I get as annoyed as anyone with the >>> multiple logins and universities do have some common logins for their >>> internal systems but I am not sure I would describe it as a need. >>> >> You don't see it as a need because you don't think of the options you are >> missing. Like people in 1800 did not think horses were slow, because they >> did not consider that they could fly. Or if they did think of that it was >> just as a dream. >> >> Or closer to home, in the 80ies most people did not miss getting information >> quickly, the library was around the corner. Or they did not miss buying >> their tickets online. >> >> You need a bit of imagination to see what you are missing. Which is why a >> lot of people stop dreaming. >> It's painful. >> >> >>> At least until some survey shows that a large number of users are willing >>> to pay for such a service. >>> >> I have never heard of an inventor making surveys to test things out. That is >> nonsense. At most what that can tell you is little details, ways to fine >> tune a system. It will never let you see the big changes coming. >> >> >>> Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend! >>> >> you too. >> >> >>> Patrick >>> >>> >>>> Henry >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Patrick Durusau >>> [email protected] >>> Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34 >>> Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps) >>> Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 >>> Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) >>> >>> Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net >>> Homepage: http://www.durusau.net >>> Twitter: patrickDurusau >>> >>> >> >> > > -- > Patrick Durusau > [email protected] > Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34 > Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps) > Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 > Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) > > Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net > Homepage: http://www.durusau.net > Twitter: patrickDurusau > >
