On 5/6/2013 11:07 AM, Sarven Capadisli wrote:
On 05/06/2013 03:33 PM, Leonard Rosenthol wrote:
On 5/6/13 9:24 AM, "Sarven Capadisli" <[email protected]> wrote:
On 05/06/2013 02:55 PM, Leonard Rosenthol wrote:
What format(s) are being used today that are not "web friendly"?
PDF, for example, is a formal and official part of the open web. In
fact,
it is a normative reference in the HTML5 specification from the W3C.
"Web friendly" here refers to native to the Web.
Again, PDF is an official part of the open web - as defined by the W3C.
How much more "native" is there??
I think you are well-aware of what I'm trying to say but I'll clarify.
HTML works better with the rest of the Web architecture than PDF. The
point of using HTML as one of the important blocks is that; it can be
semantically enriched with RDFa, Microdata, or microformats. The same
document can be presented in a variety of ways with CSS for each
consuming device if needed. JavaScript can be used to bring in
additional interaction with the document e.g., one changes the sample
data on the page to see how an algorithm works. A whole suite of
technologies that can work in a variety of ways to represent or mine
the underlying data.
PDF is a standard and also welcomed on the Web. However, it will
always be a second class format where one has to interact with it.
There is too much overhead for consumption. How many browser
extensions are there again to display a PDF in the browser?
you don't need an extension; pdf.js will do it in any modern browser.
pdf also supports links and incorporated javascript.
I will grant that HTML is much more "developer-friendly" in its legible
source code, but I'm not sure that's a big enough deal to get excited over.
What may matter a lot more in practice is the fact that HTML doesn't
hard-code a "page" size, so it can reflow to fit different displays. I
suspect that is what will kill pdf in the long run. But again, I don't
know that we have to explicitly fight for it.
That's the nativity of HTML that I'm talking about. Is the contrast
clear?
Given that generalization, PDF is not as Web friendly as HTML and
friends,
That is a definition that YOU have chosen. It is not one that is used by
any official standards body, government regulation, etc. As such,
it's use
creates confusion amongst the uninformed user and that's certainly
something none of us want.
You are right. That is the definition that I chose, but I'm not the
only one. If you will, it is an axiom in order for us to talk about
other things. If we can agree on a more precise axiom, I'm welcome to
it. I sincerely did not intend to cause confusion!
Proving this is a trivial exercise as we simply have to
look at how information is exchanged today across the globe, and how
our
communication has changed drastically (arguably for the better).
And that's certainly an excellent endeavor. But you need to be sure to
phrase things in that manner or in ways that properly and accurately
reflect your goals.
You are right. I'm trying :)
If you want to talk about (X)HTML-like formats as a set of formats for
content delivery - that's perfectly reasonable and enables you and
others
to focus on the specifics of your desires (and the issues that it also
brings up). But using a term such as "web friendly" says nothing and
only creates confusion.
I thought my description was self-evident but I surely see that it can
not only cause confusion but be incorrect. I'll work towards clarifying.
The underlying discussion here is that, as researchers working on the
Semantic Web / Linked Data (if you can bare with me on this for the
time being), many, like myself, should have some entitlement to submit
their publicly funded works to conferences that are about the Web
technologies.
Again, this is a mere request from conferences to say "we also welcome
HTML and friends for research submissions". If this request is in any
way inappropriate or so far-fetched to making contributions to the
field using our own technologies, I'd love to first know precisely
why, and second, figure out how to work towards it.
No one is trying to stop anyone from submitting their work in PDF. I
would appreciate it if we are not stopped from submitting our work in
a way that plays well with the rest of the Web stack.
Is that reasonable?
-Sarven
