Your message to which I replied is not cited accurately below by you. The text you wrote is here, in between """ lines:

How about a thread-safe but lock-free version of the DOM based on something like Clojure's atom? So we can manipulate the DOM from web workers? With cursor support?

How about immutable data structures for side-effect-free functional programming?

How about .... Will think of more

This message text is exactly what I wrote my reply against.

It's useless; sorry, this happens, but don't make a habit of it, or most practitioners will unsubscribe to public-webapps. The DOM is a mutable single-threaded store, so there's no lock-free version possible. You'd have snapshots, with some cost in the snapshotting mechanism, at best. Then, you wouldn't be able to "manipulate" in any shared-state sense of that word, the DOM from workers.

Sorry, but that's the way things are. Dropping words like immutable and lock-free doesn't help. That, plus a lot of attitude about deprecating sync XHR (on all sides; I'm not in favor of useless deprecation, myself -- good luck to browsers who "go first" on actually *removing* sync XHR support), adds up to noise in this list. What good purpose does noise to signal serve?


Marc Fawzi <>
February 10, 2015 at 6:24 PM
What? a good cop bad cop routine? Jonas asks for a constructive contribution or ideas for missing functionality in the web platform and the inventor of JS honors me with a condescending response, as if ...

What the hey! Mr. Eich!

I guess this explains the origin of JS: a knee jerk reaction to then-trendy ideas...

That's not the way to go about all inclusive debate.

Thank you.

Sent from my iPhone

Brendan Eich <>
February 10, 2015 at 5:44 PM
Please stop overloading public-webapps with idle chatter.

React and things like it or based on it are going strong. Work there, above the standards. De-jure standardization will follow, and we'll all be better off for that order of work.


Marc Fawzi <>
February 10, 2015 at 12:51 PM
i agree that it's not a democratic process and even though some W3C/TAG people will engage you every now and then the end result is the browser vendors and even companies like Akamai have more say than the users and developers. It's a classic top-down system, but at least most debates and discussions happen over open-access mailing lists.

I wish there was an app like Hacker News where browser vendors via W3C, TAG, webapps etc engage users and developers in discussions and use up/down votes to tell what matters most to users and developers.

But design by committee is really hard and sub-optimal, and you need a group of true and tried experts (open minded ones) to call the shots on various technical aspects.

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