Virginia – we have been following the steps you listed below, and have been 
sending out “Review Notices” since Ballot 190 that included the specific Ballot 
language in “track changes” mode showing how our guidelines (BRs or EVGL) were 
amended by each Ballot – I believed that this complied with our Bylaws shown 
below.

Unfortunately, as Ryan pointed out a few days ago, our Review Notices can’t 
include just the specific Ballot language showing the changes that were made by 
the Ballot, but must include “a complete draft of the Draft Guideline [i.e., 
the entire BR or EVGL document itself] that is the subject of such notice”.  
Oddly enough, the IPR Agreement language doesn’t allow the “Draft Guideline” 
that is sent with the Review Notice to show what changes were made by the 
Ballot, so it’s not very helpful to Members for their IP review.

As a result, I will be sending out revised Review Notices this week that 
include the entire “Draft Guideline that is the subject of such notice” for the 
following ballots: Ballots 190, 191-193, 195-197, 199, 201, 204, 207, 210, 
214-215, and 217.  Because there were no Exclusion Notices filed last time in 
response to the Review Notices sent (except for Ballot 190, where royalty free 
licenses were granted), I doubt there will be any new Exclusion Notices 
submitted this time.

As a separate matter, I note that the Governance Change Working Group is 
already working on an updated draft of our IPR Agreement.  I suggest the WG 
consider changing IPRA Sec. 4.1 so that Review Notices for Final Maintenance 
Guidelines (our typical ballots) only provide the specific Guideline language 
that was changed by a Ballot (in “track changes” mode), and not the entire 
Draft Guideline (i.e., don’t send the entire BR or EVGL document that doesn’t 
showing the changes made by the Ballot).  That would seem more useful to Forum 
Members in reviewing a Review Notice for the purpose of providing Exclusion 
Notices.

Here’s a further explanation.

WHAT OUR BYLAWS SAY ABOUT BALLOTS AND REVIEW NOTICES

Here are the relevant portions of what our Bylaws say about Ballots that 
propose a “Final Maintenance Guideline” (something that amends the existing BRs 
or EVGL), which is different from a “Final Guideline” (which is a whole new set 
of requirements in a new document):

2.4       Requirements for Draft Guideline Ballots
This section applies to any ballot that proposes a Final Guideline or a Final 
Maintenance Guideline (a “Draft Guideline Ballot”), all as defined under the 
Forum’s IPR Policy.  Draft Guideline Ballots must comply with the following 
rules in addition to the requirements set forth in Section 2.3 above.
(a)  A Draft Guideline Ballot will clearly indicate whether it is proposing a 
Final Guideline or a Final Maintenance Guideline.  If the Draft Guideline 
Ballot is proposing a Final Guideline, such ballot will include the full text 
of the Draft Guideline intended to become a Final Guideline.  If the Draft 
Guideline Ballot is proposing a Final Maintenance Guideline, such ballot will 
include a redline or comparison showing the set of changes from the Final 
Guideline section(s) intended to become a Final Maintenance Guideline, and need 
not include a copy of the full set of guidelines.  ***
(b) [Discussion period details]
(c) [Voting period details]

(d)  [Announcement of vote result]
(e)  If a Draft Guideline Ballot passes the Initial Vote, the Chair shall 
initiate, no later than the 3rd business day after the announcement of the 
Initial Vote results, the Review Period of 30 or 60 days, as applicable and as 
described in Section 4.1 of the IPR Policy.  The Chair will initiate the Review 
Period by sending the Review Notice to both the Member Mail List and the Public 
Mail List.  The Review Notice will clearly specify the open and close dates and 
times (with time zone) of the Review Period.  [Vice Chair may do this if the 
Chair does not]
(f)  [Chair to distribute any Exclusion Notices received]
(g)  [Exclusion Notices must also be sent to the Public List]

(h)  If no Exclusion Notices are filed during the Review Period with respect to 
a Draft Guideline Ballot, then the results of the Initial Vote are 
automatically deemed to be final and approved, and Draft Guidelines then become 
either Final Guidelines or Final Maintenance Guidelines, as designated in the 
Draft Guidelines Ballot.  The Chair will notify both the Member Mail List and 
the Public Mail List of the final approval within 3 business days, as well as 
update the Public Website of Final Guidelines and Final Maintenance Guidelines 
within 10 business days of the close of the Review Period.
(i)  If Exclusion Notice(s) are filed during the Review Period [PAG created, 
etc.].
(j)  [What to do if two overlapping Ballots amend the same sections]


WHAT OUR IPR AGREEMENT SAYS ABOUT BALLOTS AND REVIEW NOTICES

Our IPR Agreement is largely consistent with the Bylaws, but includes this 
provision requiring the entire “Draft Guideline” be part of the Review notice, 
as Ryan pointed out a few days ago.  This means the entire updated BR or EVGL 
document, not showing what the Ballot changes were:

IPR Agreement Sec. 4.1 - Review of Draft Specifications.
Prior to the approval of a CAB Forum Draft Guideline as a CAB Forum Final 
Guideline or Final Maintenance Guideline there shall be a review period during 
which Participants may exclude certain Essential Claims from CAB Forum RF 
Licenses. The CAB Forum Chair shall initiate the Review Period by distributing 
to each CAB Forum Participant a notice of review period and a complete draft of 
the Draft Guideline that is the subject of such notice (“Review Notice”). Each 
Participant on behalf of itself and its Affiliates shall have sixty (60) days 
following the date of the receipt of such Review Notice (“Review Period”) to 
review such Draft Guideline and consider any licensing obligations with respect 
to any Essential Claims that may be encompassed by such Draft Guideline. The 
approval of a CAB Forum Final Maintenance Guideline shall follow the same 
process except that the Review Period shall be thirty (30) days.


From: Public [mailto:public-boun...@cabforum.org] On Behalf Of Virginia 
Fournier via Public
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2018 12:22 PM
To: public@cabforum.org<mailto:public@cabforum.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL][cabfpub] Review Notices

I agree that some Review Notices that have been sent out may not comply with 
Section 2.4(e) of the Bylaws.  The sequence of events is important, and there 
was a very thorough discussion about this sequence in connection with the 
ballot.

A thumbnail sketch of the sequence:


  *   7-day discussion period
  *   7-day voting period
  *   Ballot passes the Initial Vote (if it doesn’t, stop here).
  *   Chair initiates Review Period (30 or 60 days) with Review Notice to 
Public and Member lists
  *   If no exclusion notices are filed during the Review Period, then ballot 
is approved.
  *   If there are exclusion notices filed during the Review Period, then 
ballot is not approved at that time, then PAG, etc.

So, here’s the question, was a Review Notice sent out after a Ballot passed, 
and, if so, did the Review Notice include the correct information?  If not, the 
Ballot was not properly approved, a new Review Notice will need to be sent out 
with the correct information, and participants will need to be given a new 
Review Period.  Otherwise, the Ballot will not be “approved” according to the 
Bylaws.

Any questions about this?

Best regards,

Virginia Fournier
Senior Standards Counsel
 Apple Inc.
☏ 669-227-9595
✉︎ v...@apple.com<mailto:v...@apple.com>





On Feb 1, 2018, at 10:33 AM, 
public-requ...@cabforum.org<mailto:public-requ...@cabforum.org> wrote:

Send Public mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Public Digest, Vol 69, Issue 118 (Ryan Sleevi)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 13:32:15 -0500
From: Ryan Sleevi <sle...@google.com<mailto:sle...@google.com>>
To: Kirk Hall 
<kirk.h...@entrustdatacard.com<mailto:kirk.h...@entrustdatacard.com>>,  
"CA/Browser Forum
            Public Discussion List" 
<public@cabforum.org<mailto:public@cabforum.org>>
Cc: Virginia Fournier <vfourn...@apple.com<mailto:vfourn...@apple.com>>
Subject: Re: [cabfpub] Public Digest, Vol 69, Issue 118
Message-ID:
            
<cacvawvaycxkz1s00ftlz+spnm3pvqvuijx_6fnwkbi9jkpz...@mail.gmail.com<mailto:cacvawvaycxkz1s00ftlz+spnm3pvqvuijx_6fnwkbi9jkpz...@mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Kirk,

As mentioned previously, these Review Notices don't comply with Section
2.4(e) of the Bylaws and our IPR Policy, Section 4.1

As per https://cabforum.org/wp-content/uploads/CABF-IPR-Policy-v.1.2.pdf
Prior to the approval of a CAB Forum Draft Guideline as a CAB Forum Final
Guideline or Final
Maintenance Guideline there shall be a review period during which
Participants may exclude
CA/B Forum Intellectual Property Rights Policy, v. 1.2 Page 2
certain Essential Claims from CAB Forum RF Licenses. The CAB Forum Chair
shall initiate the
Review Period by distributing to each CAB Forum Participant **a notice of
review period and a
complete draft of the Draft Guideline that is the subject of such notice
(?Review Notice?)**. Each
Participant on behalf of itself and its Affiliates shall have sixty (60)
days following the date of
the receipt of such Review Notice (?Review Period?) to review such Draft
Guideline and
consider any licensing obligations with respect to any Essential Claims
that may be encompassed
by such Draft Guideline. The approval of a CAB Forum Final Maintenance
Guideline shall
follow the same process except that the Review Period shall be thirty (30)
days.


I think the important part is "a complete draft of the Draft Guideline"

Not a redline, but the complete draft - the fully integrated text.


On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Kirk Hall via Public 
<public@cabforum.org<mailto:public@cabforum.org>>
wrote:

Virginia ? yes, we have been posting Review Notices for every ballot that
changes the Guidelines since Ballot 190 to the Public list ? just search on
?Review Notice? and you should see them.  Here is an example.



*From:* Public [mailto:public-boun...@cabforum.org] *On Behalf Of *Virginia
Fournier via Public
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 31, 2018 8:09 PM
*To:* public@cabforum.org<mailto:public@cabforum.org>
*Subject:* [EXTERNAL]Re: [cabfpub] Public Digest, Vol 69, Issue 118



Hi - I don?t recall seeing any Review Notices sent out pursuant to Section
2.4(e) of the Bylaws.  What is happening with those?





Best regards,



Virginia Fournier

Senior Standards Counsel

? Apple Inc.

? 669-227-9595 <(669)%20227-9595>

?? v...@apple.com<mailto:v...@apple.com>











On Jan 27, 2018, at 4:20 PM, 
public-requ...@cabforum.org<mailto:public-requ...@cabforum.org> wrote:



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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Public digest..."


Today's Topics:

 1. Updated CABF documents - Record of Review Notices (Kirk Hall)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 00:20:52 +0000
From: Kirk Hall 
<kirk.h...@entrustdatacard.com<mailto:kirk.h...@entrustdatacard.com>>
To: CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List 
<public@cabforum.org<mailto:public@cabforum.org>>
Subject: [cabfpub] Updated CABF documents - Record of Review Notices
Message-ID:
           <db5933c86e0a4825a58723cc548c3a67@PMSPEX04.corporate.
datacard.com<mailto:db5933c86e0a4825a58723cc548c3a67@PMSPEX04.corporate.%0bdatacard.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I attached updated copies of the BRs, EVGL, and Bylaws in "show changes"
mode, in both Word and pdf format.  Please review.  If there are no edits,
we can finalize and post to the CABF website at the end of next week.

A note on timing.  The changes to the BRs and EVGL all come from a single
ballot, Ballot 217, which only became effective on Jan. 20, 2018 (a week
ago).  Under our Bylaws, updated BRs and EVGLs should have been circulated
by last Wednesday, so I am 3 days late - I apologize for any inconvenience.

Our Bylaws do not specify any time limit on when updated copies of the
Bylaws must be created and circulated, and these revised Bylaws include
only the changes from Ballot 216, which became effective Dec. 21, 2017 -
about five weeks ago.  Again, I apologize if anyone was inconvenienced by
not receiving an updated copy of the Bylaws before today.

I also attach a document "Record of Review Notices Since Ballot 190 (27
Jan 2018)" which indicates there have been no Exclusion Notices filed on
Guidelines ballots since Ballot 190.  Members were already aware of this,
as anyone claiming an Exclusion Notice must post it to the Public list (and
none have been posted since Ballot 190), but we will maintain and update
this new document and send it out in the future on the Public list after
the Review Period for each Guidelines ballot expires.
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kirk Hall 
<kirk.h...@entrustdatacard.com<mailto:kirk.h...@entrustdatacard.com>>
To: "CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List" 
<public@cabforum.org<mailto:public@cabforum.org>>
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:22:35 +0000
Subject: Notice of Review Period ? Ballot 217

*NOTICE OF REVIEW PERIOD ? BALLOT 217*



This Review Notice is sent pursuant to Section 4.1 of the CA/Browser
Forum?s Intellectual Property Rights Policy (v1.2).  This Review Period is
for Final Maintenance Guidelines (30 day Review Period).  A complete draft
of the Draft Guideline that is the subject of this Review Notice is
attached.



Date Review Notice Sent: December 21, 2017



Ballot for Review:                          Ballot 217 ? Sunset RFC 2527



Start of Review Period:                 December 21, 2017 at 23:00 UTC



End of Review Period:                  January 20, 2018 at 23:00 UTC



Please forward any Exclusion Notice relating to Essential Claims to the
Chair by email to 
kirk.h...@entrustdatacard.com<mailto:kirk.h...@entrustdatacard.com> before the 
end of the
Review Period.  See current version of CA/Browser Forum Intellectual
Property Rights Policy for details.



*(Optional form of Exclusion Notice is attached)*



*Ballot 217: Sunset RFC 2527*



*-- MOTION BEGINS --*



This ballot modifies the "Baseline Requirements for the Issuance and
Management of Publicly-Trusted Certificates" as follows, based upon Version
1.5.1:



In Section 2.2, replace the text:



"The CA SHALL publicly disclose its Certificate Policy and/or
Certification Practice Statement through an appropriate and readily
accessible online means that is available on a 24x7 basis. The CA SHALL
publicly disclose its CA business practices to the extent required by the
CA's selected audit scheme (see Section 8.1). The disclosures MUST include
all the material required by RFC 2527 or RFC 3647, and MUST be structured
in accordance with either RFC 2527 or RFC 3647. "



with the following:



"The CA SHALL publicly disclose its Certificate Policy and/or
Certification Practice Statement through an appropriate and readily
accessible online means that is available on a 24x7 basis. The CA SHALL
publicly disclose its CA business practices to the extent required by the
CA's selected audit scheme (see Section 8.1).



Effective as of 31 May 2018, the Certificate Policy and/or Certification
Practice Statement MUST be structured in accordance with RFC 3647. Prior to
31 May 2018, the Certificate Policy and/or Certification Practice Statement
MUST be structured in accordance with either RFC 2527 or RFC 3647. The
Certificate Policy and/or Certification Practice Statement MUST include all
material required by RFC 3647 or, if structured as such, RFC 2527."





This ballot modifies the "Guidelines for the Issuance and Management of
Extended Validation Certificates" as follows, based on Version 1.6.6:



In Section 8.2.2, replace the text:



"Each CA MUST publicly disclose their EV Policies through an appropriate
and readily accessible online means that is available on a 24x7 basis.  The
CA is also REQUIRED to publicly disclose its CA business practices as
required by WebTrust for CAs and ETSI TS 102 042 and ETSI EN 319 411-1.
The disclosures MUST be structured in accordance with either RFC 2527 or
RFC 3647."



With the following:



"Each CA MUST publicly disclose its Certificate Policy and/or
Certification Practice Statement through an appropriate and readily
accessible online means that is available on a 24x7 basis. The CA SHALL
publicly disclose its CA business practices to the extent required by the
CA's selected audit scheme (see Section 17.1).



Effective as of 31 May 2018, the CA's Certificate Policy and/or
Certification Practice Statement MUST be structured in accordance with RFC
3647. Prior to 31 May 2018, the CA's Certificate Policy and/or
Certification Practice Statement MUST be structured in accordance with
either RFC 2527 or RFC 3647. The Certificate Policy and/or Certification
Practice Statement MUST include all material required by RFC 3647 or, if
structured as such, RFC 2527."



*-- MOTION ENDS --*



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