Dude, I'm saying it is relevant and since it IS RELEVANT it should be its own 
topic and not diluted into any other topic...

On Nov 20, 2011, at 10:17 PM, Matthew Terenzio <[email protected]> wrote:

> I thought it was hugely relevant. Sorry. You see, I can't seem to win here. 
> I'll go back to keeping my mouth shut.
> 
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Julien <[email protected]> wrote:
> Matt,
> These are valid concerns, but given that this is off topic ( with regard to 
> supporting arbitrary contents) it would be great if you could repost that as 
> another topic, so we can keep this clean.
> I'll see if we can delete your comment and mine after you've reposted it 
> where it belongs. 
> 
> Thanks for understanding!
> 
> --
> Julien Genestoux
> 
> Sent from phone, please pardon brevity and typos. 
> 
> On Nov 20, 2011, at 9:59 PM, Matthew Terenzio <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> I brought an issue up in the early days and got a few decent responses and a 
>> number of irrelevant attacks which I guess was because I was considered the 
>> RSSCloud guy on the PuSH list. Just thought I'd toss that in here.  ; )
>> 
>> But it had to do with the architecture of PubSubHubbub and respecting 
>> copyright.
>> 
>> At some point in a a widely grey area there is a line between syndication 
>> and unauthorized redistribution of content. I don't know where it is and it 
>> might even begin with the publishers intention or implicit license they give 
>> by making a feed available.
>> 
>> While I tend to lean toward more open licenses for content, not everyone 
>> does. And because hubs can daisy chain content down lines, whether or not 
>> your hub is respectful might not mean you aren't part of a questionable 
>> distribution chain.
>> 
>> That last part is certainly not the strong part of what I'm saying. Just 
>> saying we should think about what it means to redistribute parts of the web 
>> that owners might not have intended for syndication.
>> 
>> Aside from that concern which I'm sure you have already thunk about, I think 
>> it has incredible potential with the explosion of semantic web data arriving 
>> on the web.
>> 
>> So much so that I could see feeds being unnecessary for many sites since all 
>> the pages are marked up well enough that the description of the content is 
>> just as easily digestible from the web page as it was from the feeds. 
>> Almost, at least, though there would still be the overhead of the crawl, I 
>> guess. But for many blog style sites, a sematically marked up home page is 
>> practically as good as a feed.
>> 
>> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Julien Genestoux 
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> This is a pretty thick topic and involves a lot of changes in the spec! 
>> Generally, I believe it should not be destructive, so the current spec that 
>> applies to feed should probably be moved (and kept) to an annex/extension 
>> called "PubSubHubbub for RSS/Atom feeds" that should include all the 
>> specific points that apply to feeds.
>> 
>> Here are the changes I think are necessary :
>> 
>> - Definition
>> We should probably come up with a definition of what an "abritrary content" 
>> is. My "simple" answer would be : any web resource that is accessible thru a 
>> URL. 
>> 
>> - Discovery
>> Right now, the discovery is very RSS/Atom centric, as it works thru the 
>> addition of an atom:link element poitning to the hub. This should be moved 
>> to the PubSubHubbub for RSS/Atom spec, as arbitrary resources may not have a 
>> "schema" which would allow for this.
>> The answer that Monica cam up with a long time ago was HTTP Link headers. 
>> Each resource that is available thru PubSubHubbub should then just come with 
>> a Link HTTP header, with a rel indicating it's a hub, and the right href. 
>> Something like this: The
>> Link:<http://hub-url>;rel="hub"
>> The feed specific also insists on the required rel="self" link. This can 
>> also be enforced using the same approach:
>> Link:<http://resource-url>;rel="self"
>> 
>> - Diff
>> The current version of the spec is very specific to RSS/Atom feeds and 
>> should be moved onto the feed's extension. the idea is that the hub may not 
>> be able to diff the content in a meaningful way. As of now, the hub is just 
>> supposed to push the difference with the "older" representation of the 
>> resource and the newer representation of that feed (namely the entries), but 
>> also a few items that are "constant" to the feed, like it's <link> elements. 
>> We should probably change the spec so that the hub sends the whole resource 
>> in its current state. Also, the hub should push the content of the HTTP 
>> headers that the susbcriber would get should he poll the resource, including 
>> the Link: headers as they are used for discovery.
>> 
>> - Secure Notifications
>> Up to now, the notifications were secured if the subscriber and the hub used 
>> a shared secret to compute an HMAC signature out of the body. 
>> The problem introduced with arbitrary content notifications is that we need 
>> to sign the headers as was as they may include data that should not be 
>> forged. Since the signature should itself be passed as a header, we have a 
>> problem.
>> The solution that seems to solve this is to force the subscriber to use 
>> https callback urls, and use the signature as a bearer token, as in the 
>> OAuth2 spec. I'd love it if someone could just provide a friendlier 
>> explaination of how things would work exactly for those like me who are not 
>> completely familiar with OAuth2 :)
>> 
>> Again, this is a very significant change to the spec, and there is probably 
>> a couple other points  that I overlooked. Please, feel free to contribute!
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

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