On Sep 15, 2010, at 12:38 AM, Brice Figureau wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-09-14 at 13:57 -0700, Markus Roberts wrote:
>> Funny story: as the number of developers working on Puppet and related
>> projects at PuppetLabs has increased, the average distance between
>> them has dropped geometrically*, to the point that if we want to
>> discuss something we're working on with someone, we can (in many cases
>> literally) reach out and tap a fellow developer on the shoulder. This
>> is great for us but it has had an unfortunate unintended consequence:
>> we've been doing more and more face-to-face discussions and less and
>> less on this list.
>>
>> Oops.
>>
>> This wasn't intentional and (though it seems blindingly obvious in
>> hindsight) wasn't expected either. It was, as one five year old put
>> it, a blundersight.
>>
>> So we're going to try something we hope will fix things; office chat
>> is still going to go on as normal -- we'll spare you our debates about
>> whether we should try having lunch at the place with the cult videos
>> on all the TVs again or who's going to show the new developer the
>> ropes -- but if anyone starts to have a substantive discussion about
>> Puppet & friends we'll cut them off and tell them to tell it to the
>> list.
>>
>> That means that when we're kicking around ideas you'll get to see them
>> and put in your two cents worth on equal footing with the developers
>> in the office (since we really do want your input). It also means
>> that you'll get to see some ideas that never go anywhere, and crazy
>> things that are (mercifully) shot down in their first few hours. But
>> then you'll also get to see the direction of our thinking long before
>> some of it results in a line of code, and help us shape it before
>> anything is settled.
>>
>> Hopefully, it'll be just like the old days.
>
> That's a good move, one that I more than welcome.
>
> I understand that some discussions needs the privacy of your offices
> (strategic ones), but I think starting discussions on this list has many
> advantages (and in the end the final decision is still on your side):
> * openness
> * sparkling other related ideas
> * cooperation between PL and the community
I completely agree. I've personally gotten very caught up too much in trying
to get things done in the short term that I've neglected a few things, and
making sure that new developers are tied to the community is one of those
things. We've got a new commitment, or maybe just a new realization of
importance, from the whole team, and I think it'll go very well.
I personally always do better in an open environment where my mistakes and
successes are visible for everyone to see, so I'm excited to be pushing back
there. I think also helps drive action - it's easier to see the cost of
failure when you personally know the people who would be using your code if it
shipped.
> One thing that I noticed is important is sharing some knowledge. It
> already happened when testing that I find a bug that in fact your team
> already fixed, but that I either missed or wasn't pushed. I hate
> duplicated efforts :)
Yeah, this is painfully expensive and should go away.
> I hope this will work, and as usual I'd be more than happy to help by
> producing code (based on this month and next one spare time, I doubt
> something will come soon :)) or sharing discussions.
As always, any contribution you can make is greatly appreciated.
--
Silence is a text easy to misread.
-- A. A. Attanasio, 'The Eagle and the Sword'
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Luke Kanies -|- http://puppetlabs.com -|- +1(615)594-8199
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