I would like to contribute again to this interesting discussion. I
understand that the problem with Ubuntu isn't it's bloatness, one can handle
that doing, like you said, a minimal install. And I think that, if it's
going to save you work and you achieve to deliver a stable and
performance-oriented system, it can be indeed a clever way to go. I,
however, don't like Ubuntu's release cycle, like I mentioned earlier, I feel
much more comfortable having a solid base system and install newer versions
from packages I want (mainly SC3, Ardour, Jack and a rt-kernel), than having
to upgrade everything quite often. I think there are 2 main reasons why
people that do audio work (and people in general too) switch to Linux: it's
free (and this has both economical and political/ideological points) and
it's stable. So, I really can't recommend one to install in his system
something like UbuntuStudio that comes with a crappy rt-kernel or buggy
Intel Graphics Drivers (this one applys to plain Ubuntu as well), just to
mention some problems that plagues distros released in a rush. Debian, well
configured, is a damn good Desktop system, doesn't crash, has well build
backported packages, offers Testing and Unstable repositores from which one
can grab sources and backport apps etc. What I think would be awesome (and
I'm doing my homework here learning bash scripting and debian packaging so I
can help with this task) would be to have something like an audio-backports
or multimedia-backports for debian stable, with all those cool stuff we
enjoy (since backports.org is only meant for popular packages, a status that
our beloved supercollider, for example, hasn't achieved yet). But that's
something for another project, I'm considering contacting people at
debian-multimedia etc. to see what can be done here (as soon as I feel
confortable in packaging apps for debian).
Coming back to the Ubuntu discussion, on which version will next
pure:dyne be based? How will you handle, for example, this intel graphics
problem?
Ricardo
2009/9/10 Karsten Gebbert <[email protected]>
> Arif Driessen said :
> >
> > main point is that *if* you feel you can handle purdyne based on
> > Debian - you can definitely handle puredyne based on ubuntu.
> >
> >
> >
> > Well I happen to be sceptical of a move to ubuntu. As soon as you move to
> > ubuntu, I no longer have a need for pure:dyne as I myself could easially
> > install my particular flavour of ubuntu (as i no doubt will not be
> entirely
> > satisfied with your choices) and plonk my media apps and realtime patch
> on top.
> >
>
> I don't quite understand this. Ubuntu is a snapshot of Debian sid plus
> patches/improvements meaning that if you can do this with Ubuntu you
> can do it just as well with Debian. The thing is not that experienced
> users can do this sort of thing themselves - we all know that :) - but
> we put this together for people that can't do it themselves, or don't
> want to or simply don't have the time.
>
> > Besides, I thoght p:d was all about lightweight-ness, something which
> ubuntu is
> > not about. if there are actually some solid reasons for why you would
> want to
> > move to ubuntu (which I'm sure there'll only be a few) then why not add
> them to
> > your debian distro rather than the other way around (starting with ubuntu
> and
> > cutting your way around thick and fog)
>
> Lightweirght-ness is not something that is impossible to achieve with
> Ubuntu. In fact, if you start from a minimal install and install only
> the stuffs needed you end up with a snappy minimal system, just like
> you had before. As said above: a lot of the packages *are* the same as
> in Debian, yes, with slighly different defaults, and definitely more
> recent versions, but.... its Debian-based and is thus just as
> customisable as its parent distro.
>
> > Here would constitute a great reason for an update to p:d...
> >
> > * Remove XFCE, move to Lxde
> > * Get firefox 3.5 in there (it is way faster)
> > * Remove all gnome dependencies including...
> > * Remove Gnome Desktop Manager, replace with SLiM
> > * Add the ubuntu installer app, that will easially handle turning your
> live
> > distro into a non-live HD based 'normal' OS
>
> The point you're raising is something that in fact we have thought
> very carefully about. Backporting packages is not a big deal in
> itself, but in the long run requires a *massive* amount of
> maintainance work. Just think about it: a team of.. say 6-7 maybe 8 or
> 9 people having to maintain all the packages they create, plus on top
> follow the release cycle of packages they have (but don't really want)
> to maintain (I'm thinking of stuff like firefox, or XFCE or
> whatnot). Not sure you know what that means, but its a massive amount
> of work, if done properly. We just don't have the resources to do that
> at this point and it seems really like a bad idea to duplicate all
> that work when its already being done by Ubuntu maintainers.
>
> I think the point should be raised again that one of the main
> advantages of Ubuntu is that its *because* its a Desktop-oriented
> distro (which is what most of people who do music/art/media stuffs use
> it as ;) its suited much better to our needs than Debian. Debian will
> most probably more and more become a distro for servers and
> applications like that, where stability is more important than the
> length of new-features list.
>
> Finally, I think it needs to be said that, yes, we should think about
> using LXDE + pcmanfm (which I think is great btw) and try to keep it
> simple and lightweight on the Desktop end, but the prejeduice you're
> raising about "Ubuntu-based" == "bloated" is IMHO non-sense.
> If you still like, you could help us keeping puredyne simple and
> lightweight by, for instance, making a ticket with the recommendations
> you make towards improving memory/cpu footprint, startup time or
> create a Debian package for SLiM (which looks cool btw).
>
> Greetings,
>
>
> -- karsten gebbert
> -- krgn.goto10.org
>
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> ---
> [email protected]
> irc.goto10.org #puredyne
>
---
[email protected]
irc.goto10.org #puredyne
