Interesting that you brought this up.
The funny thing is that I first got introduced to python through Zope
- Zope really seemed cool, and at our company, we ended up using it
for many intranet types of things. This was several years ago.
While I don't claim to be any sort of expert on this, my take on Zope
is that it is very complex, has a steep learning curve to become
proficient, and since it does things in a very zope-centric fashion
(with its oo database and all), you more or less have to do things the
"zope" way if you are to use it at all.
That being said, zope (via Plone) would seem a great candidate
platform for doing something really ambitious, like a humongous portal/
content site or something.
For me, what python lacks is a middle-ground content management
framework solution. Zope is overkill for many things, but something
like a python port of Drupal (a php CMS framework), which is much more
light-weight might truly be more of the answer.
Here is how I see this stuff currently:
I. Zope - with plone, a complete cms application framework. The
hierarchy:
python
zope
cms
plone
application
II. Pylons - a relatively *low-level* web framework, capable of doing
nearly anything, but lacking high-level features.
Pylons consists of a bunch of interchangeable building blocks which,
at a basic level, allow applications to interact with the web.
python
pylons
everything else, done by developer. This could be moinmoin, or
anything else.
III. A python version of a CMS like Drupal could be built on top of
pylons - and with such a beast, a certain (but large) universe of
higher-level apps including complete web-sites would be "easy" to
build (theoretically). I mean things like: wikis, blogs, forums, and
collaborative sites in general with a lot of content, quickly
changing, and user-generated. So the hierarchy would look something
like:
python
pylons
"pylons-cms"
applications
And I know there is work being done in this area. For example, pagoda
(although this is for Turbogears, not pylons, and it hasn't been
released yet).
This is what *I* would like: a higher level framework, built on top of
pylons, for producing collaborative products/systems/sites/apps. Like
zope in some ways, but *not* zope.
I know this area is very complex, and would take a lot of thought. But
in a way it could do for higher level things what pylons does for the
lower-level: make it easier to get something really useful done!
-- David Geller
On Jun 22, 10:28 am, John_Nowlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Friday Topic, but meant seriously.
>
> Would anyone care to comment or provide pointers to comparisons of
> Pylons, Zope (+ Plone), MoinMoin from a developers perspective?
>
> I like Pylons but have always looked from afar at Zope as a possible
> candidate for more of our applications, something that might give our
> whole organization (university) more structure through its use, however
> the learning curve has always proved too daunting. Maybe because I've
> never just sat down and said, o.k. I'm going to learn it.
>
> I did look at a/the(?) Zope book a couple of years ago and was impressed
> with Zope's power, and ability to do things. Contrarily, the gradual
> migration to Zope3 made it look like a constantly moving target. That
> and complaints of inaccessible, overly complex code.
>
> Have you worked with it? Is the code accessible? Is the learning curve
> steep, but worth it?
>
> It may be a dream, but I really would like to see Python adopted more
> here, and a (Python, Zope + Plone?) CMS would seem to be part of the
> solution. Would that preclude the use of Pylons or do you think there
> still would be a place for a Python web framework?
>
> All somewhat arbitrary, depends on the requirements questions, but I'm
> curious about developer opinions or anyone who has worked with these
> tools.
>
> Cheers,
> John
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